Podcast Ep. 3: Moving from Lawyer to Leader

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.  On this podcast, we talk about what it takes to succeed as a woman lawyer in a law firm.

My name is Cecilia Poullain and I’m a former finance lawyer.  I now help women lawyers make it to partnership, using the tools and insights I’ve developed in my Pathway to Partnership programme. In this podcast, you’ll get clarity on whether partnership is truly what you want, you will build your confidence and you will master client development in a way that feels sustainable, in a way that works for you.

So let’s get you walking into the office every morning clear on why you’re aiming for partnership, free of imposter syndrome and confident in your ability to bring in clients without burning out.

OK, let’s jump in.

From Lawyer to Leader

Hook
“I just want to be the best lawyer I can be”.  I hear this from women lawyers all the time.  But if you want to make partner, this simply isn’t enough.  Apart from all the other skills you need to develop, you also need to be seen as a leader.

The Problem

• It’s not that easy to go from being a great lawyer - to being the best lawyer you can be - to stepping into leadership.  It’s not the same skill set.

• Ailsa Davies.  Women lawyers who are very passive in their careers:  they are often meticulous, reliable, conscientious, but they’re scared about taking risks, scared about exposure, terrified of making mistakes.

• Women are being yelled at, interrupted, shut down.  They hear the negative far more than the positive, appalling management in law firms generally… because lawyers don’t learn to be leaders and managers.  Has a big impact on the younger women lawyers in the firm.

What is a leader?
Distinction between a leader and manager.  A manager tends to focus on getting the job done. A leader, on the other hand, defines the common goal and inspires and empowers people to work together towards it. 

A leader is someone who is prepared to make the decisions.  Can be scary, because you’re often alone in making those decisions and you will be judged, sometimes harshly.  That can be terrifying, especially for women.

The Solution

• More risk

  - Talk about women having to take more risk — yes and no. Depends which risks we’re talking about.  Christine Lagarde - financial crisis - too much testosterone in the trading rooms of banks.  Not taking more risk in the decisions we’re making, but taking the risk of being exposed and of being criticised.  The risk of putting yourself out there.  If the idea of exposure sounds terrifying, if you’re the type of person who absolutely hates speaking in public, for example, that’s something that can be learned to do in ways that work for you.  Because for some lawyers, fake it until you make it doesn’t work.  So I would suggest you reach out for help to me or somebody else if that sounds like you. 

  - But if you’re OK with exposure, perhaps you need to be looking at whether you are taking enough risk to be seen.

Moving from passive to proactive

• Kelly Nolan talks about this on her podcast in relation to time management for professional women — you go from being reactive and having no control over your calendar to having to schedule time for deep thought because that’s what you’re paid for.

• Same with moving from lawyer to leader — move from producing perfect work and becoming a great lawyer to becoming far more proactive in the way you show.  In a moment, we’ll look at what “pro-active” can look like. 

• Moving from “perfection” - can feel very seductive and very satisfying - and producing work to taking ownership of your career.

What does ‘being proactive” look like?
It means:

• It means speaking up more in meetings and on client calls, even if you’re not 100% sure you’re right.  Doesn’t mean being suicidal.  Perhaps back yourself; ask the partner if you can take the lead, knowing that they are there if you don’t know the answer, and that’s OK.  It can be more comfortable not to speak up but if you want to become a leader then you need to get used to the discomfort.

• It means taking ownership of the relationships you want to create and the quality of those relationships (see episode 2)

• It means reaching out to partners so they know you

• It means taking ownership of your learning, working out what skills you need to become a partner and developing a plan to learn those skills — management skills or marketing skills or financial skills, for example.

• It means taking ownership of client development early, in whatever way works for you.  If you need support on that, I’m very happy to help.

How do you become not only a great lawyer but a great leader? 

• HUGE topic and a million resources out there about leadership.  Here are few thoughts:

  - Good to Great — Jim Collins.  Level V leaders.   The very best leaders are humble, take blame for mistakes, attribute their success to good luck rather than personal greatness and very ambitious for the company, not themselves and very, very persistent.  Million dollar question is:  how do you become a Level V Leader?  Jim Collins’ hypothesis is that there are two categories of people:  those who do not have the seed of Level V and those who do.  Under the right conditions, those who are able to subjugate their ego and under the right circumstances - self-reflection or conscious personal development - can develop into Level V leaders.  

  - “Crucial Conversations”:  Great leaders are those who know how to speak their mind and keep the conversation psychologically safe for everyone involved.  They aren’t aggressive and they aren’t silent.  These skills can be learned. 

  - Will Storr:  We need status and we need connection.  When we have status, we feel respected.  When we have connection, we feel we belong.  These are absolutely fundamental human needs and when we don’t get them, this has massive impacts on our health - but often they conflict.  How do we reconcile them?  By seeing leadership as example, by creating community, by teaching rather than as domination.

What happens when you adopt a “leader” mindset?

• You see that most of those risks aren’t risks at all — because there is only upside - learning so much faster

• When you start acting as a leader, you are seen as leadership material so you make partner faster

• Happier, feel more in control of your life and less at the mercy of others

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode has given you greater clarity and confidence on your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, share it with a colleague who might find it useful, and leave a review — let’s together help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you want to go deeper, head over to www.ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Thanks for listening.