Podcast Ep. 15: Mastering Panic: 3 Steps to Stay Calm Under Pressure as a Woman Lawyer

Let me start with something that might feel uncomfortably true.

You think you are afraid of being sued.
You think you are afraid of making a mistake.

But that is not what is really going on.

What you are actually afraid of is being found out.

Because being found out brings shame. And shame, for most of us, feels unbearable. It is that sinking, full body feeling that makes you want to disappear through the floor. In those moments, it does not feel like a professional inconvenience. It feels existential.

And that is what triggers panic.

A Moment I Will Never Forget

Early in my career, I was working in the Paris office of a US law firm on a high pressure transaction involving the sale of three factories across France and Germany. We had three weeks to negotiate and execute everything. It was intense, exhausting, and completely new to me.

A few days before closing, late at night, I could not find a crucial document. It was the one with the partner’s handwritten comments.

I searched everywhere. Every folder. Multiple times. Half an hour passed.

Nothing.

By the time I asked my assistant for help, I was in full panic mode. He walked in, opened the very first folder I had already checked several times, and there it was. Right on top.

I had not missed it because it was hidden.

I had missed it because I was panicking.

What Panic Actually Does to You

When you panic, your brain is flooded with cortisol and adrenaline. You go into fight, flight, or freeze.

You stop thinking clearly.
You lose perspective.
You become reactive instead of strategic.

And in a profession like law, where clarity and judgment are everything, that is a dangerous place to be.

The irony is this. The moment when you most need to think well is the moment when panic makes that almost impossible.

So the question becomes how do you interrupt that pattern.

You Need a Panic Process

If you work in a high pressure environment, panic is not something you eliminate. It is something you prepare for.

You need a process you can rely on. Something you can return to every single time things go wrong so that instead of spiralling, you respond with clarity and control.

Here is what that looks like.

Step 1 Manage the Emotional Reaction

Before you solve the problem, you need to steady yourself.

This is the step most people skip. It is also why they make things worse.

Start here.

Name what is happening.
Say it to yourself. I am panicking.
It sounds simple, but it activates your rational brain and begins to pull you out of the emotional spiral.

Create distance.
Step away from your desk. Get a cup of tea. Walk around the block. Even a few minutes is enough to shift your perspective.

Breathe deliberately.
Slow, deep breaths, especially with a longer exhale, help move your body out of stress mode and into a calmer state.

You cannot think clearly until your nervous system settles. This step is essential.

Step 2 Normalise the Mistake

Once you have calmed down, remind yourself of something important.

Mistakes are normal.

Not because standards do not matter. They do. But because you are working in a high pressure, fast moving environment where perfection is unrealistic.

What matters is not whether a mistake happened.
What matters is how you respond to it.

Step 3 Generate Solutions Before You Speak

Now, and only now, do you move into problem solving.

Take a blank page and write down possible solutions. Do not judge them yet. Just get them out of your head and onto paper.

Then ask yourself

What are the next steps for each option
Who needs to be involved
In what order should I speak to them

Once you have explored your options, choose two or three viable paths forward.

Then have the conversation.

Why This Changes Everything

When you approach a partner or a client with both the problem and considered solutions

You save time and reduce cost
You come across as calm and capable
You shift the focus from blame to resolution

In other words, you start to look like someone ready for partnership.

If You Are Leading Others

There is another side to this.

One day, someone junior will walk into your office in full panic mode.

Your reaction matters more than you think.

The most effective thing you can do is not to take over but to guide them through the same process

Help them calm down
Help them regain perspective
Ask questions that lead them to solutions

This builds confidence, trust, and loyalty. And it creates stronger lawyers around you.

And just to be clear, do not throw anything at them.

This Is a Learnable Skill

Some people appear naturally calm under pressure.

But this is not an innate trait reserved for a lucky few.

It is a skill.

And like any skill, it improves with practice.

So try this process. Adapt it. Make it your own. Use it consistently.

Because things will go wrong. That is part of the job.

The difference is that next time, you will know exactly what to do.

And that changes not just how you perform but how you feel about your career.

You do not have to do this alone.
And you get to define success on your own terms.

Podcast Ep. 14: The Two Time-Management Systems Every Woman Lawyer Should Know About

I have to admit something that may surprise you.

I am often amazed at how poorly organised some of my clients are. And I am not talking about junior lawyers. I am talking about women who are juggling partnership in major law firms with small children at home.

What I often see are post it notes stuck to computer screens, to do lists rewritten every single day, inboxes used as task managers, and complex tracking systems that are so time consuming they quickly fall apart.

If that sounds familiar, you are not alone. But it is also not sustainable.

So in this episode, I want to take you into the detail of how I organise my own time. Not because my system is perfect, but because it has evolved over many years and it allows me to keep everything in one place so that my brain does not have to.

Before I share the practical side, there are three principles that underpin everything I do.

The first is that you only have one life, so you should only have one system.

Work and personal life are not separate in practice. You might need to book a medical appointment during the work day or take a work call in the evening. If your system does not capture everything, things will fall through the cracks.

The second principle is simple: if it is not in your diary, it is not in your life.

And the third is that when you feel overwhelmed, focus only on the very next thing. Not the entire list. Just the next step.

With those principles in mind, let me show you what this looks like in practice.

I use a very simple spreadsheet with three tabs.

The first tab is my daily and weekly dashboard. The second is for my quarterly goals. And the third is for my longer term goals.

This means everything is connected. My day to day actions link directly to my quarterly priorities, which in turn support my longer term direction.

In my daily dashboard, I divide tasks into two categories: shorts and longs.

Shorts are the small tasks that do not take much time but take up a surprising amount of mental space. Things like making a phone call, booking tickets, or sending a quick email. If I do not write them down, I find myself trying to remember them all day.

Longs are the tasks that require real focus and concentration. These are the ones that move things forward in a meaningful way. I try to limit myself to a maximum of three per day, and ideally just one.

Tasks come into this system from two directions. They come from everything that lands in my world, emails, conversations, requests. And they also come from my quarterly goals. This is what ensures that even during busy periods, I am still making progress on what really matters.

I also schedule time in my diary to deal with my shorts. Otherwise they simply do not get done. When I block an hour to clear them, it is incredibly satisfying to empty that list and free up mental space.

Alongside this system, I have been experimenting with something that has been a real game changer for me: calendar blocking.

Every Friday afternoon, I spend about an hour to an hour and a half planning the week ahead.

During that time, I review what is on my mind, I look at my goals, I check my projects, and I make sure I am creating space not just for work, but also for family, rest, and enjoyment.

And then I schedule everything.

This is where the real shift happens.

Instead of constantly deciding what to do next, I make those decisions in advance. By the time Monday arrives, I already know what I am focusing on and when.

This is particularly important as you become more senior.

Early in your career, you are rewarded for being reactive. You respond to emails, complete tasks, and follow instructions. But as you progress, you are expected to think, to strategise, and to lead. That requires uninterrupted time. And that time does not appear by accident. You have to create it.

Calendar blocking also makes it much easier to say no.

When you can see your week clearly, you can make informed decisions about whether you have the capacity to take on something new. You can also have more honest conversations about priorities and trade offs.

So if something urgent comes in, you can see exactly what needs to move in order to accommodate it.

That level of clarity is incredibly powerful.

Now, you do not need to copy my system exactly. The goal is not perfection. The goal is to have a system that works for you and that you actually use.

So here is a simple way to get started.

Choose one place where everything will live for the next week. It could be a notebook, a spreadsheet, or an app. Then write down everything you need to do and commit to using only that system for seven days.

See how it feels to get everything out of your head and into one place.

Most people find that it brings an immediate sense of calm and control.

Because ultimately, being organised is not about doing more. It is about creating the structure that allows you to focus on what matters and to build a career and a life that feels manageable and meaningful.

Podcast Ep. 13: Strategic Planning for Women Lawyers: Thriving in Quiet Times

One of the things I found most difficult when I was a lawyer was not just the volume of work, but the unpredictability of it.

There were days when everything was completely quiet. I would sit at my desk wondering what to put on my timesheet. And then, at five in the afternoon, something urgent would land on my desk that had to be finished by the next morning. Or I would have an entire week with very little to do, only to end up working all weekend.

I found that rhythm incredibly stressful.

There was the anxiety during the quiet periods, and then the pressure of having to switch instantly into high gear just as I was starting to wind down. It felt like going from first gear to fifth in a matter of seconds.

Some people thrive in that kind of environment. They enjoy the unpredictability. I am not one of those people. I need structure. I need a sense of direction.

So in this episode, I want to share a way of working that helps you stay focused and make progress, even when your workload is irregular and you have very little visibility on what is coming next.

The key idea is this: use the quiet periods intentionally.

In most law firms, we set annual goals during review season. And then, very quickly, those goals are forgotten. The problem is that a year is simply too long. It is too abstract. It is too easy to postpone action.

What works far better is to break those goals down into shorter time frames.

One framework I find particularly useful is the concept of objectives and key results, often referred to as OKRs. The idea is simple but powerful. You define a small number of objectives for a given period, typically a quarter. These objectives describe what you want to achieve. Then, for each objective, you define two or three key results. These are concrete, measurable actions that will move you towards that objective.

The important point is that key results are specific and measurable. You either do them or you do not.

Now, you might be thinking that this sounds great in theory, but completely unrealistic in practice when you are busy with client work.

This is exactly where your quiet periods become so valuable.

If you have already defined your objectives and your key results for the quarter, then when work slows down, you do not waste time wondering what to do. You already know. You can immediately shift your focus to activities that move your career forward.

Because the reality is that, as a lawyer, you are not only delivering client work. You are also building a business.

Let me give you an example.

Imagine it is January. You have come back from the holidays, and suddenly there is very little work. Your instinct might be to worry about your empty timesheet. But if you have set clear objectives for the quarter, you can use that time productively.

Perhaps one of your objectives is to start building your client base. Your key results might include having two business development meetings each week, presenting your practice to colleagues in other teams, or organising an event for potential clients.

Another objective might be to demonstrate that you are ready to lead. Your key results could include taking responsibility for supervising junior lawyers or setting up regular coaching conversations with them.

A third objective might be to build relationships with decision makers in your firm. That could involve arranging one to one meetings, identifying a sponsor, or speaking at internal events.

When you have this level of clarity, the quiet periods stop being a source of stress. They become an opportunity.

Instead of feeling stuck or anxious, you are able to make meaningful progress on the things that matter for your long term career.

So if you take one thing away from this, let it be this.

Do not wait for your workload to become predictable before you start planning. It probably never will.

Instead, decide in advance what matters most to you over the next few months. Define one objective if that feels manageable, and identify two or three concrete actions that will help you achieve it. Then, when time opens up, you can use it with purpose.

Because the goal is not just to react to the work that comes in. It is to move your career forward, even in the gaps between the busy periods.

And that is how you start to create a sense of control in a profession that often feels anything but predictable.

Podcast Ep. 12: Systems That Hold Everything (So Your Brain Doesn’t Have To)

Yesterday I had lunch with a five year PQE, and something she said stayed with me. She told me that a good weekend for her was when she managed to have two half days off. The rest of the time she was working late into the night and through the weekend.

And she is not alone.

So many of the women lawyers I speak to are looking ahead to partnership and wondering how on earth they are meant to do it all. Build a practice, bring in clients, deliver excellent work, and at the same time manage a personal life that may include children or caring responsibilities. And increasingly, many are also asking a deeper question: do I even want this?

In this episode, I want to take a slightly different angle. There is a broader conversation to be had about how law firms structure work and how different career models might offer more flexibility. But for now, I want to focus on something more immediate and practical. What can you do if you simply have too much on your plate?

Because I know exactly what that feels like.

I am interested in many things. When I have an idea, I want to act on it straight away. For a long time, I believed that if I was just more efficient, I could fit everything in. But the truth is, I cannot. At least not all at once.

And the same is true for my clients.

They want to do everything. Build their practice, be present for their families, stay healthy, grow their network, attend events, post online, take on more work, and still have time for themselves. Just listing it all is exhausting. And yet many believe that better productivity will somehow make it all possible.

It will not.

What I see happening instead is that they keep adding more to their lists. At best, they become frustrated and start dropping things. At worst, they burn out.

And burnout in the legal profession is not rare. It is widespread. A significant proportion of lawyers report having been close to burnout or already experiencing it. This is not about a small minority. This is about the person next door to you at work. It may well be about you.

So we need to approach this differently.

One of the biggest issues I see is the absence of proper systems. Many lawyers are operating reactively. They write endless to do lists, respond to emails as they come in, and focus on whatever feels most urgent in the moment. There is very little prioritisation and very little structure.

So in this episode, I share three simple techniques that I use myself and with my clients to regain control.

The first is the four D’s: do, delay, delegate, or drop.

Take everything that is currently on your list and force yourself to put it into one of those categories. This is a powerful exercise because it confronts you with reality. You cannot do everything. Some things will have to be delayed, some delegated, and some dropped entirely. It is far better to make those decisions consciously than to carry unrealistic expectations and risk becoming unreliable.

The second tool builds on this. I call it ICEE: impact, cost, energy, and enjoyment.

Once you have narrowed your list, you then evaluate what remains. How much impact will each task have on your overall goal? What will it cost you financially? How much energy will it require? And importantly, how much will you actually enjoy it?

This process forces you to think strategically. Two tasks might both contribute to your goals, but one may drain you while the other energises you. That matters. When you start comparing tasks in this way, it becomes much clearer what is worth your time and what is not.

The third technique is the one that has made the biggest difference for me personally.

Every Friday afternoon, I block out time in my calendar to plan the week ahead. During that session, I review my projects, check my commitments, and think about what needs to happen in the coming days. And then I schedule everything directly into my calendar.

Not just the big tasks, but also the small ones.

There is a saying that if something is not in your diary, it is not in your life. I have found that to be absolutely true. When I rely only on a to do list, things get postponed again and again. When I put them in my calendar, they get done.

This approach also separates planning from execution. Instead of constantly deciding what to do next, you make those decisions in advance. When the week begins, you simply follow the plan.

So if I were to summarise the message of this episode, it is this.

You do not need to become infinitely more efficient. You need to become more selective.

You need to accept that you cannot do everything, at least not all at once. You need systems that help you prioritise what truly matters. And you need to give yourself permission to let some things go.

Because success in law is not about doing more and more until you reach breaking point. It is about making deliberate choices about where your time and energy go.

And that is what ultimately allows you not just to succeed, but to build a career and a life that you actually want.

Podcast Ep. 11: Why Smart Women Lawyers Still Feel Overwhelmed

In this episode, I want to share something that genuinely surprised me.

A couple of weeks ago, I ran a session for a group of women lawyers in Paris. I had planned to test ideas from my work on time management, particularly around goal setting and planning. I expected us to talk about long term vision, structured planning, and productivity systems.

But very quickly, I realised I had completely missed the point.

The real challenge these women were facing was not planning. It was interruptions.

These were brilliant lawyers. They knew exactly what they needed to do. They walked into the office every morning with clear to do lists and strong intentions. But their days were not their own. They were constantly interrupted by partners, colleagues, clients, and opposing counsel. As a result, many of them could only begin their real work late in the afternoon, once everything had finally quietened down.

And often, that meant working late into the evening just to concentrate.

At the start of the session, I spoke about long term and short term goals. But I could see the discomfort in the room growing. So I paused and asked them how they approached their own goals.

What emerged was fascinating.

One woman told us she did not have long term goals at all. She was a partner in a small tax practice, a mother of twins, and genuinely happy with her life as it was. Another explained that long term planning simply did not work for her because her priorities kept changing. Instead, she focused on one objective at a time, achieved it, and then moved on to the next.

A law student preparing for her bar exams shared a similar approach. She had a clear goal and worked backwards from it. When she realised she needed more confidence for her oral exams, she enrolled in theatre classes to develop that skill.

What struck me was this: none of these women lacked ambition. They simply defined their goals in very different ways.

Then we moved into how they organised their days, and that is where the real challenges came to the surface.

The first issue was constant interruption. The second was the pressure created by multiple communication channels. Emails followed by instant messages followed by texts, all within minutes, all demanding immediate attention. It created a sense of urgency that was often unnecessary but very difficult to ignore.

The third issue was phones themselves. Not just because they ring, but because they are addictive. One woman noticed she reached for her phone whenever she needed to think deeply or do something uncomfortable. Another compared phone use to smoking. She had successfully quit cigarettes, but found it far harder to control her phone.

And finally, there was the overwhelming nature of their to do lists. One woman described the feeling of looking at her list and wondering how she could possibly get it all done.

As I listened, a clear pattern emerged.

For most of these women, their time was being dictated by other people.

They were available all day, every day. And that constant availability was preventing them from doing the very work they were paid to do, which is to think, analyse, and solve complex problems.

So I started asking a different question.

What would happen if you gave yourself permission not to be available all the time?

What would it look like if you protected even one hour a day for deep, focused work?

For some, this might mean setting clear expectations with clients or colleagues. For example, letting them know you will respond at a specific time rather than immediately. For others, it might mean closing your door, turning off your phone, or limiting how often you check your emails.

Of course, I am very aware that not every area of law allows for complete control over your schedule. If you are in the middle of a deal or a hearing, flexibility is limited. And junior lawyers often have less autonomy. But even within those constraints, there may be more room than you think.

The deeper question is this: how much of your day is truly unavoidable, and how much is simply habit or expectation?

We also touched on the idea of doing enough, rather than trying to do everything. One of the women realised, as she spoke, that she could not possibly give one hundred percent to every aspect of her work and life. Instead, she could aim to do enough in each area and accept that some things would not get done.

That shift alone can be incredibly freeing.

So if I had to summarise the key insight from that evening, it would be this: time management is not really about systems or perfect planning. It is about permission.

Permission to focus.
Permission to set boundaries.
Permission to do enough.
And permission to not be available to everyone all the time.

Before you go, I would invite you to try a simple exercise.

Take a piece of paper and ask yourself three questions. What is one task this week that truly requires your full concentration? When do you do your best thinking? And how could you protect that time, even for a short period, to focus on that task?

Think of it as an experiment. Start small. And if it works, build from there.

Because ultimately, succeeding as a lawyer is not just about how much you do. It is about creating the conditions that allow you to do your best work.

And that starts with taking back control of your time.

Podcast Ep. 10: The 6 Biggest Mistakes Women Lawyers Make on the Pathway to Partnership

In this episode, I wanted to do something a little different. Rather than focusing on one specific topic, I walk you through the key ideas from my guide on how to make partner in your law firm. My aim is to give you a more reflective framework so you can think more deliberately about what partnership really means for you and whether it truly aligns with what you want.

One of the things I see all the time when I coach women lawyers is that many have become disconnected from their feelings. When I ask how they feel, they tell me what they think. But your feelings are critical information, especially when you are making a decision as significant as whether to go for partnership. The reality is that partnership, particularly in larger firms, can require enormous sacrifices. It is worth taking the time to think this through properly.

The first mistake I often see is treating partnership as simply the next step. It is not just a promotion. When you become a partner, you are also becoming a business owner. Some lawyers truly love the law and want to spend their time doing legal work. Others enjoy that but are also curious about building a business, developing clients, and leading teams. It is important to be honest with yourself about which category you fall into before you commit to this path.

The second mistake is not defining what you actually want from a law firm. I see many women lawyers assuming they need to adapt to their firm’s culture rather than asking whether it is the right fit for them. I encourage you to get really clear on your values and your priorities. There may be certain things that are non negotiable for you, such as being treated with respect or having the flexibility to spend time with your family. There will also be things that are nice to have but not essential. The clearer you are, the better decisions you will make.

The third mistake is not building a robust support network. You cannot do this on your own. Support can come in many forms: emotional support, mentors, sponsors, coaches, and professional connections who can refer work to you. It also includes your life outside the firm, such as your partner or family. Having the right people around you can make a significant difference to your experience and your success.

The fourth mistake is failing to plan for the development of non legal skills. Being a great lawyer is not enough to succeed as a partner. You will need to know how to bring in work, manage finances, lead a team, handle difficult conversations, and think strategically. Some firms will help you develop these skills, but many will not do so in a structured way. That means you need to take ownership of your development and think proactively about what you need to learn.

The fifth mistake is relying too much on your firm to manage your career. Even if your firm has excellent programs, you cannot afford to be passive. You need to take responsibility for your own progression, your network, and your skills. I always encourage lawyers to think about what they need and then go out and find a way to get it. Sometimes that means doing something creative or unexpected to build a skill or fill a gap.

Finally, the most damaging mistake I see is staying invisible. This can show up in many ways: not speaking up in meetings, avoiding opportunities to be visible, or not building relationships with key decision makers. I want to be clear that this is not about blame. There are real structural reasons why this happens. But within that reality, there are still small steps you can take. Start by identifying where you are holding back, and then challenge yourself to take small, manageable actions to increase your visibility and confidence.

If you take one thing away from this episode, I would encourage you to try a simple exercise. Write down these six mistakes and ask yourself honestly where you are today in each area. Then choose one small action that would move you forward. It might be speaking up in a meeting, reaching out to someone in your network, or deciding which skill you want to develop next.

The path to partnership is not just about meeting external expectations. It is about making intentional choices, building the right skills, and defining success on your own terms. You do not have to do this on your own, and you get to decide what success looks like for you.

Podcast Ep. 9: Sales Conversations Without Fear for Women Lawyers

Having sales conversations with potential clients can be terrifying.  Why?  Because we feel judged.  And the reality is, we are being judged - that’s what the sales conversation is all about.  

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast, a podcast designed specifically for women lawyers.

My name is Cecilia Poullain. I’m a coach for women lawyers who want to make partner. 

Each week on the podcast, we explore the three pillars of my Pathway to Partnership programme: clarity, confidence and client development.

And today, we’re going to talk about something that many people dread:  sales.

For a lot of women lawyers, selling their services feels very uncomfortable. It feels pushy.  It feels sleazy.   But if you want to make partner and if you want to be an effective partner, sales is an extremely important part of the job.

Today, we’re exploring how to bring different energies to your sales conversations so that they feel natural, credible and effective.

I want to start with a story.  Late one Friday afternoon last year, I spoke to a potential coaching client. She had been treated appallingly by her employer.  She was on sick leave and she was so distressed that her psychiatrist had suggested that she go on anti-depressants.  She said she was interested in working with me but wanted to talk it over with her husband over the weekend.  We arranged to speak again on the following Monday.

But when she got on the phone on Monday, the first thing she said was:  “I’m really sorry Cecilia, but I’ve decided not to work with you - I’m not in any fit state to do this work right now.”  I acknowledged what she had said… then asked her permission to coach her.  During the call, she was frequently in tears, but by the end of our conversation, she was smiling and even laughing.  I then switched my energy from “passive” to “assertive” and said to her, without even asking her opinion:  “Actually, based on the conversation we’ve just had, you can’t afford not to work with me”.  I was giving her my view as an expert.  I knew I could help her.  I knew I could keep her off the anti-depressants.  I knew that  she wasn’t depressed - she was grieving.   

To my delight, she agreed, and within two months, she had received three job offers and had accepted one - and most importantly, she was back to her usual, cheerful self.  

I’m sharing this story because it’s an example of the different energies we need to bring to sales conversations:  listening deeply THEN showing up as an expert.  In this episode, we’re going to look at why sales is such a problem for women lawyers and how to make it easier. 

So why is sales such a problem?

• The main reason is emotional.  Having sales conversations with potential clients can be terrifying.  Why?  Because we feel judged.  And the reality is, we are being judged - that’s what the sales conversation is all about.  And if the person we’re talking to says “no”, we can go into a confidence tailspin - because we feel as though they are judging us as people and we start to think:  “I’m not good enough”.  Or we fall into the black and whites, the absolutes.  We start to think:  “I will never bring in enough work.  I will never be able to bring in enough cash.  I will never  be able to support a team”.  And for sole practitioners or small firms, it’s even worse - we start to think:  “If they say no, my business will go under.  This is the end”. So our emotional reaction to being judged is the first problem.

• The second problem is we don’t know how to sell.  As with so many of these things, as I say over and over again on this podcast, we’re expected to know how to sell without anyone ever teaching us - but sales is a whole profession in itself.  In a few minutes, you will learn a simple sales conversation structure that will get you on your way.

• A related problem specifically for women lawyers and even more specifically for younger women lawyers is that they find it very hard to establish their credibility with older men.  That power dynamic can be very difficult.  Interestingly, they also say that it is sometimes even harder to convince a General Counsel who is a woman than a GC who is a man.

• Women can face a double-bind if they are too aggressive in their sales conversations:  some people don’t like being challenged or having their authority and expertise put at risk, particularly by a younger woman.  If the lawyer is assertive (and acts in the way a man might act), then she can be judged as aggressive even when she isn’t being particularly aggressive.  However, if she doesn’t stand up and say what she thinks, then she can be seen as weak or not credible.  Either way, she loses. 

• Many women are great at listening to their clients and understanding their problems, but in a sales conversation, they feel less confident proving why they are the best person for the job, and this part of the conversation can make them feel very anxious.

• And finally, when the client starts to object and push back, in particular on price, if we aren’t confident enough and don’t fully believe in the unique value we can bring to that particular client, we can cave in to their demands and then bitterly regret it.   

So they are just a few of the reasons why sales conversations can be difficult.

Before we get into the structure for sales conversationsI’d like to give you a little bit of context:

• First, let’s look at “what is sales”?  Let’s start by defining what it is not.  Sales is not positioning or finding your niche or your speciality  - that’s the work you need to do well before you get into the sales conversation.  If you want to know more about that, check out Episode 7.  And sales isn’t marketing.  Marketing is all about making sure that people know you exist and moving them through the know, like, trust funnel.  If you want to know more about that, check out Episode 8.  That’s what sales isn’t.  Sales is the conversation with a potential client when the client and you are deciding whether they are going to hire you or your firm as their lawyer and you are deciding if you want to work with them as a client.  A sales conversation can take the form of a formal pitch, a Teams call, a coffee in a coffee shop or an in-person visit.   That’s my first point on context.

• And the third point is this.  If there is an RFP, you need to ask yourself whether you actually want to respond.  If you know you aren’t the right lawyer for this client or this case and have very little chance of winning, it may be a better use of your time to simply not respond.  And sometimes, you will know that you are the token, benchmark bid, in which case you may want to respond in order to maintain good relationships with the client, but not waste too much time on it.  

• In certain situations, there is no sales conversation.

  - I understand that more and more often, large corporate clients are asking their law firms to pitch for work by responding to an online questionnaire. I think that’s a real shame, because it doesn’t leave much room for the firm to differentiate their value - and I suspect that in this case, the only thing the client is really looking at is price.  But I also understand that, even in this situation, when the formal RFP is online, there is often a sales conversation - but it happens afterwards, when the client asks to chat with the lawyer informally over a coffee.  That’s the second point I wanted to make about context.

  - And sometimes, when a client is referred to you for example, the sales conversation will be very light because the client isn’t really considering any other options.  The only question is whether they are prepared to accept your fee. 

  - So there are two situations in which there isn’t really a sales conversation at all.

• But in many other situations, you will find yourself in a sales conversation.  In these situations, if you master the sales conversation structure which I’ll share with you in a moment, this is a huge advantage.  Because the truth is that there are lots of very good lawyers out there, most of them are likely to do a great job, so it’s in how you handle the sales conversation that you can win the business.  And if you master the structure, you will feel so much more confident.

As I mentioned a moment ago, well before you find yourself in a sales conversation, there is some work to do.  And that work is knowing what your differentiated value is.  A quick reminder of what “differentiated value” is.  Your "differentiated value” is all the things that make you different and more valuable compared to all the other lawyers and other solutions out there for your ideal client.  You need to know your differentiated value because that’s the way clients think.  They aren’t making a choice in a vacuum.  They are deciding between different options:  between you and other lawyers, between you and doing it in-house, between you and potentially other professionals, consultants, accountants etc.  

OK.  That’s enough preliminaries.  Now I want to get into the main point of this episode and provide you with a very simple structure that you will be able to remember and apply no matter what sales conversation you find yourself in.  Professional sales people have multi-part structures that they script, rehearse and refine over time.  You don’t need that.  To start off with, this simple structure is more than enough to get you through.  

The sales conversation has four parts:

• Understanding the client’s “perfect world” - and we’ll talk in a moment about what “perfect world” means.

• Proving that you can provide that perfect world - or, as I said before, deciding to walk away

• Dealing with objections

• Keeping control of the sale

So - understanding their perfect world, proving you can provide it, objections and keeping control of the sale.

Here’s the first part: understanding their perfect world.

You have three objectives in the first part of the sales conversation.  You need to understand their issue; you need to understand what they are looking for in a firm and you need to establish your credibility.  

In order to understand their issue, you need to really listen.  When we’re great at relationship building, which a lot of women lawyers are, we can be naturally brilliant at this part of the conversation - we use active listening, we summarise what the client has just said, we repeat the last few words they said to keep them talking.  That’s the first objective.

The second objective is to understand not only their problem but also what they are looking for in a law firm and in a lawyer.  What is important to them?  Is it the size of the firm?  Is it the price? Is it the level of expertise - so, for example, are they looking for the specialist on this particular point, or are they happy to work with someone who will do a good enough job at a reasonable price.  It is vital to know what they are looking for in a lawyer and a law firm, because it helps you to know whether you are the right firm for them. 

The third objective is that, especially as a woman, you need to establish your credibility early.  This is the answer to the question I asked before - how do younger women lawyers establish their credibility with older men?  

Research shows that relationship-builders can be the worst sales people - because they don’t ever challenge the client.  It shows that the best sales people are those who make the client feel slightly ill when they realise what risks they are taking.  However, the idea of “challenging” has a very masculine energy to it.  For women, challenging a client can be tricky, as if they challenge too hard, they can be labelled “aggressive” or “pushy”.  

So how do you establish your credibility without challenging the client, or at least challenging them aggressively? Here are three ways:

• The easiest way is by asking the right questions and asking your questions in a way that shows your expertise.  You might say something like: “That’s one way forward. I’m curious — have you considered X? In my experience, it often makes a big difference in situations like this.” 

• Then ground your comments in evidence.  Say things like:  “In a recent deal of this type, this is what happened” or “We’ve seen regulators pay attention to this.” or “This is how this tends to play out in court.”  This moves the conversation away from your opinion versus theirs and instead shows you are plugged into the broader market.

• And then you can acknowledge what they say, and then add your perspective. So you might say something like:  “Yes, that’s a good point. And we’ve also seen situations where XYZ”  By using the word “and”, you are less likely to be perceived as oppositional, but you can still introduce your expertise.  You can even say “and” when you’re saying exactly the opposite of what they have just said.  Of course, you can use this technique in a lot of situations, not just sales conversations, because it makes sure that the other person continues to listen to you. 

So there are three ways to ensure that you establish your credibility without “challenging” the client aggressively.

Once you have really understood their issue and you have really understood what sort of lawyer or firm they are looking for, the next step is to summarise.  Summarise their issue to make you sure you have fully understood it.  And then, you might say something like:  “in a perfect world, you are looking for a lawyer who understands your business and will do a decent job without charging you over-the-top rates” or “in a perfect world, because this is such an important, complex issue with such a huge impact on your business you are looking for an ultra-specialist and are willing to pay correspondingly” or “in a perfect world, you need a lawyer who will help preserve the relationship between you and your husband after the divorce and who will not only deal with the legal side of things but who will also bring their emotional intelligence to the table”.

After you have summarised, you need to get them to confirm both that you have understood their issue and that you have understood what they are looking for in a lawyer or a law firm.

Once they have confirmed that, that’s the end of the first part of the sales conversation.  If they don’t confirm it, then either you need to circle back and ask more questions or you need to walk away.  You will know at this point if you are what they are looking for - if you’re not, there is no point trying to prove that you are.

Remember we spoke about “the perfect world” a second ago?  Well, the second part of the conversation is all about proving that you can provide their “perfect world”.  From this point onwards, you need to bring a different energy to the conversation.  In the first part of the conversation, you will have a receptive, listening energy, not talk too much, ask lots of questions.  Physically, you might be leaning forward, looking at your client.

But in the second part of the conversation, you sit up straighter.  This indicates that you are going to take control.  You talk more.  You are more assertive and make strong claims.  Your energy in the second part of the conversation is very different.

As I said before, the client will be comparing you with other alternatives.  Which means that, in this part of the conversation, you need to quickly provide details of various deals you have worked on and the CVs of your team, which I know when I was a client I found pretty irrelevant, and then spend a lot of time helping them to make their choice by focussing on your differentiated value:  what you do better than the alternatives the client might be considering.  

It’s not about putting your competitors down, and saying things like:  “we are a far better firm than XYZ & Partners”, it’s about comparing different approaches to the problem.  So you might say something like:  “unlike the multinational law firms, we are a small firm that understands the issues faced by small businesses - and in particular, we understand that it is absolutely critical for you that our fees stay within budget”.  Or you might say:  “unlike other firms, in addition to being lawyers, we are also trained mediators, which means we focus on preserving the relationship between the shareholders and find that this approach minimises litigation and legal costs and is generally a far happier process for everyone involved.”  

So - that’s the second part of the conversation. Proving how you are the best alternative compared to all the others and helping your client make that choice.

The third part of the sales conversation is about addressing objections.  When someone challenges you or objects, it can feel very threatening.  You can go into a tailspin and start to think “they’ve already decided they’re going to say no” or “I have to do whatever it takes to save the sale”.  This is why it is so important to do the work beforehand and to understand exactly what your unique value is.  Because when you do that, you are in a far better place when they start to object.  When you do that, you don’t crumble or cave in to the client’s demands.  

The truth is, if someone is thinking of saying “no”, they won’t object.  They will smile graciously and say:  “thank you for your time” and walk away.  If someone is objecting, it means that they are seriously considering you.  If they work in an organisation, they are probably thinking about all the questions their boss or the business people are going to ask them.  If they are an individual, they’re probably thinking about their partner.  So objections are great news!

One of the biggest objections, of course, is price.  This is what is usually discussed in that post-online-RFP coffee I referred to earlier.  If you know in your bones that what you provide is incredibly valuable for this particular client, that you are the person to provide it to them, then you can switch the discussion from a question of price to a question of value.  You want to start talking about how much working with you will save them in the long term, or how much they will potentially win if they win the court case or whatever it might be.  Compare your fee with the potential risks or the potential gains, and suddenly it won’t seem like so much.

If you are hearing the same objections over and over again, you might actually want to raise them yourself and address them.  That is another way of establishing your credibility.

And as a woman lawyer, you might even decide to explicitly raise the issue that you are a woman, and say something like: “I know this might sound odd, but as a woman, I find it more difficult to establish my credibility.  But at the same time, I know I can do a great job - would it be OK if I shared some testimonials with you to reassure you?”  

That’s the end of the third step.

The fourth step involves taking control of what happens next.  You absolutely do not want to leave it hanging.  You absolutely do not want the client to say:  “OK, I’ll get back to you” without setting a time to speak again or without understanding what is happening next.  You might, for example, ask what the internal validation process is, how long it is likely to last, who needs to be involved, and set up a follow-up call within a reasonable period.  If it is appropriate, you might even presume the sale and get them to sign the contract there and then.

So that’s it.  The sales conversation in four simple steps.  Let’s just run over them quickly again:

• The first part is all about listening and seeking to understand their problem and what they’re looking for in a lawyer or a firm.  It’s also about establishing your credibility early in the conversation.

• At the end of the first part, you summarise their issue and set out their perfect world - what they are ideally looking for in a lawyer, and then the energy changes.

• In the second part, you help them make sense of alternative approaches and to prove that you correspond to the “perfect world” they have confirmed they are looking for.  You sit up straight, you talk a lot, assertively take control of the conversation.

• The third part is all about dealing with objections.

• And finally, you need to keep control of the next steps.

As I said before, sales professionals write sales scripts, practice them and refine them over time.  So next time you’re going to speak to a client about a potential job, why not pretend to be a “sales person”.  Why not run through the structure I’ve just shared with you and even say it out loud.  When you practice enough, you will walk into that conversation with a quiet confidence which is perhaps the best selling technique of all.

Before we go, I’d like to give you a weird sales tip from a book called “Pre-suasion” by Robert Cialdini.  Robert Cialdini talks about how we are much more influenced by extraneous factors than we might think. As a woman lawyer, you might want to use this to your advantage in order to overcome any unconscious bias that the person you are talking to might have about women.  You might, for example, include photos in your pitch of great female lawyers, think Christine Lagarde, Ruth Bader-Ginsberg or Michelle Obama, or perhaps quote a great female lawyer.  These unconscious factors have far more impact than you would expect.

That’s it for today’s episode. 

Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.

I hope that you now have a framework that will give you more confidence for your next sales conversation.

If you’ve found this episode useful, please share it with a colleague or leave a rating or a review — it really helps other women lawyers find the show.

And if you’d like to go deeper, you can find resources and ways to work with me at ceciliapoullain.com.

Until next time — remember, you don’t have to do this alone and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Podcast Ep. 8: Sustainable Business Development for Women Lawyers

I want to tell you a quick story about two young solicitors who joined the same firm at the same time - let’s call them Sue and Simon.  In the early years, Sue concentrated on developing relationships within the firm; Simon, on the other hand, concentrated on developing relationships with clients.  Fast forward ten years, Sue had double the work and double the success that Simon did.  

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast, a podcast specifically for women lawyers.

My name is Cecilia Poullain. I used to be a finance lawyer and now I coach women lawyers who want to make partner without losing themselves in the process.

Each week, we explore the three pillars of my Pathway to Partnership programme which is all about giving women lawyers the skills they need to become great partners. 

As a partner or a sole practitioner, one of the most important parts of your role is to bring in clients. But that’s really tough when no one has ever shown you how.

In this episode, we’ll focus on how to create a reliable system for business development — one that works for you without you having to do everything or rely on luck.

OK, let’s dive in.

If your marketing strategy looks a bit like “write an article, go to a lunch, post something on LinkedIn, speak at a conference, start a podcast, hope for the best” — don’t worry, you’re in very good company. But there’s a much easier, more effective way to do it.

But first, if you haven’t yet listened to Episode 7 on Positioning and Niching, go back and do that now — because you can’t market effectively until you know what your niche is.  This episode builds on the ideas and concepts in Episode 7.

In this episode, we’re going to look at:

• Why women lawyers hate marketing

• Identifying where your work is coming from and building the relevant relationships

• The marketing funnel - how to get people to know, like and trust you so much that they want to work with you.

So, why do many women lawyers hate “marketing”?  There are all sorts of reasons:

• Perhaps the main reason is that we’re expected to know how to market but nobody teaches us how. A partner in a major UK law firm told me that they were always telling their younger lawyers to market themselves but the younger lawyers never did and she couldn’t understand why.  I suggested maybe it was because they didn’t know where to start.

• Women lawyers in particular can feel excluded from the “men’s club” - playing golf, watching rugby or drinking with the boys.

• Perhaps you’ve found that your marketing efforts so far aren’t very efficient - that you’ve been to lunches that go nowhere, or spent hours preparing training sessions that bring in no work.

• Or maybe you don’t feel legitimate — I hear comments like:  “Why would a senior partner of a private equity firm want to talk to me?”

• And some firms or partners make it even harder by being very protective of their client relationships.

No wonder it feels uncomfortable or awkward.  And then there is the issue of what you are actually allowed to do under the rules of your particular jurisdiction. 

But the biggest mistake I see women lawyers make is trying to do it all - write the book, write the articles, start the podcast, have the lunches and afterwork drinks, run events and run conferences, be on boards, post regularly on LinkedIn.   It exhausts me just to think about it.

In the same way as in Episode 7 we talked about finding your niche in order to make your life easier, in this episode we will talk about how to work out which marketing activities to do and which ones to forget about. 

But before we do that, could I suggest that you take a moment to have a good hard look at the data. If you think back over the clients you worked for over the last six months or the last year, where did those come from?  How did they end up on your desk?

And you might be surprised.

One of the lawyers at a Firm Women breakfast did this exercise and was amazed to discover almost all her clients came from other departments within her own firm.  That’s incredibly common — and a huge opportunity.  Because that’s the easiest marketing of all.  

If the majority of your clients aren’t coming from other lawyers in your firm or if you’re a sole practitioner or in a very small firm, then they are probably coming from:

1. Lawyers outside your firm, or “referral lawyers”

2. Other professionals

3. Direct client relationships

Let’s look at each of those in turn.

As I said a second ago, if the data shows that most of your clients are coming from inside your firm, that’s brilliant news, because these are the easiest relationships to build.  

But despite that, I see many women lawyers, especially in the bigger firms or offices, either sticking with their team or with their friends - because it feels safe - and not making enough effort to get to know other people in the firm.  Why do they do that?  Because when you start to reach out to other people, you run the risk of being rejected, and that fear can stop us from taking action.

I want to tell you a quick story about two young solicitors who joined the same firm at the same time - let’s call them Sue and Simon.  In the early years, Sue concentrated on developing relationships within the firm; Simon, on the other hand, concentrated on developing relationships with clients.  Fast forward ten years, Sue had double the work and double the success that Simon did.  

Why?  Because most of their work was coming from inside the firm. 

And it makes sense, doesn’t it?  The people inside your firm have a vested interest in making sure the firm works well, so the more you know them, make friends with them, understand their practice area and speciality and vice versa, the more likely they will think of you at the relevant time.  A lot of firms recognise how powerful this is and do all they can to encourage cross-selling.

Who should you start to build relationships with in your firm?  Think about which teams might have common interests.  I had a client who was doing arbitration with a particular focus on M&A disputes - it made sense for her to build relationships with the M&A team and that team could have benefitted from her expertise in understanding what made a merger or acquisition fall apart and therefore reinforce their drafting on those points. 

With all marketing, the key is to think about what others need and work out how you can give to them, without expecting anything in return.  The more you give, the more you’ll receive. Why?  Because reciprocation is an automatic human response. If you are looking to build up relationships with the people inside your firm, find out about their business, see if you can make introductions, perhaps suggest you write an article together or speak at an event together, perhaps they need something for their kids or in their personal life.  Whatever it is, look to help them first, without expecting anything in return.  

And here’s another way to help.  Law can be a surprisingly lonely profession.  Even if it seems like you’re surrounded by people all day every day, your reality can be sitting alone in your office, or in these post-Covid times, at home, drafting or responding to emails all by yourself.  It can feel as though everyone else is having coffees and lunches and after dinner drinks and you’re the one being left out.  You would be surprised just how many lawyers feel that way.

Which means that there is a massive need in law firms to bring people together, either formally or informally.  That’s a fabulous opportunity to start to create those relationships.  By being the one who brings people together. That can look like starting a regular breakfast meeting or regularly inviting a couple of people to lunch or thinking about what different people have in common and bringing them together.  It doesn’t have to be hard.

Another problem in almost all organisations including law firms is that people work in silos.  They don’t know people in other teams or departments and they don’t know what they do.  Again, this is a brilliant opportunity for you to bring people together.  Today, I had lunch with a friend who is an in-house lawyer in a bank.  She realised this was happening in her bank, so she ran a training session and invited 800 people to talk about the basics of structured EMTNs, a particular capital markets product.  It was a huge success, as people started to realise what their role was in the bigger picture.  And what incredible marketing for her.  That’s just an example. 

Now let’s look at referral lawyers.  As I have already said multiple times on this podcast, much of our work comes from other lawyers.  If you’re a transactional lawyer, a tax lawyer or a corporate lawyer, for example, you’re lucky because you can build on-going relationships with clients and work on repeat deals, but for many other types of lawyers, especially litigators or arbitrators, it’s a lot more difficult because clients don’t have that sort of repeat deal.  For this second group of lawyers, having a group of other lawyers who refer work your way is critical.  And if you’re a sole practitioner, these relationships are especially important.

And for that reason, relationships with referral lawyers should be treated with as much care as client relationships.  Take people out to lunch when they send you a client, see if there are opportunities to work together, make sure you recommend them (if you’re sure they’re good lawyers!), send them interesting articles etc. 

How do you meet these referral lawyers?  That’s pretty easy - attend conferences or, even better, speak at conferences, join working groups, join professional associations.  You went to law school so that’s another source of referrals.   

Other non-legal professionals can also be fantastic sources of work. For example, I worked with a personal injury lawyer and she receives regular referrals from hospital staff. Ask yourself: who else interacts with your ideal clients? How can you build trust with them?  One of the issues she was finding in personal injury work is that, for the professionals, it can be pretty traumatic.  My client came up with the idea of her firm running a regular group for other professionals in the area to talk through those traumas - and this was a brilliant way to put her law firm front and centre in that community. 

And finally, if you work for, or would like to work for, a very specific group of clients, then target those clients.  Forget LinkedIn - you know who those people are, so reach out to them directly.  It might be, for example, the Greek community in Paris.  It might be Italian corporates seeking to establish themselves in the UK.  It might be the automotive industry.  If you know who they are, that’s a fantastic opportunity because you can go deep in becoming a leader in and serving that community.  All you have to do is to be where that community is. 

Once you know where your clients come from, whether it’s from other lawyers inside or outside the firm, from other professionals or directly from clients, you can focus your efforts there.  Instead of trying to do it all, focus.  That’s how your life gets to be so much easier.

A quick word on feeling that you’re not at the right level, that the CEO of the private equity firm isn’t going to be reaching out to you.  If you’re in that situation, you need to realise that relationship building takes time, sometimes a long time.  As I have said before, you need to start early.  Instead of reaching out directly to the CEO or the general counsel of a potential client, reach out to people at your level, at your age, and grow alongside them.  This makes your marketing so much easier, because you will have so much more in common with those people.  If you have young children, they might have young children.  You are getting your career established - so are they.  A word of warning:  if you are getting 100% of your work from the firm, it can be easy to sit back and relax and not worry too much about marketing - but if you start early, it means that when you do become partner or equity partner, you already have those deep relationships and possibly even friendships with people who are now General Counsel.  Those people definitely know, like and trust you.

So - you now know which relationships you should be concentrating on, and you can forget about the others.. 

Let’s now talk about the marketing funnel, one of the fundamental building blocks of finding clients.  

The first, widest part of the marketing funnel is making sure that people know you exist.  If they don’t even know you exist, there is no way they will ever work with you.  Again, this depends where your work is coming from.  If you want to contact clients directly, this could be through writing a book, writing articles, writing LinkedIn posts, running a podcast, whatever it is.  On a side note, the best marketing is the kind you actually enjoy.  I had lunch with two lawyers recently and one of them said:  “I love writing articles, getting into the nitty-gritty, I just love it!” and the other one said “it was such a relief to learn that I never needed to write another article in my life!”.  If you don’t like doing it, don’t do it, because you won’t!  

But back to the marketing funnel.  Having potential clients know you exist isn’t enough - the next step is making sure they know you.  “Knowing you exist” and “knowing you” are obviously very different things.  People will start to know you personally if you engage with them on a personal level, whether it’s meeting at conferences, through referral lawyers or professional groups or simply reaching out to them.  Or perhaps it’s because you start a conversation when they leave a comment on a LinkedIn post. 

Once somebody knows you, the next step is to think about how to deepen the relationship - or, in marketing speak, get them to “like” you.  I think in terms of “where do I put them?”  I run regular Firm Women breakfasts in Paris because it is a way for me to deepen the relationship with many of the women lawyers I meet - and I know there is a huge need for women lawyers to have safe spaces to share the challenges they are facing at work.  But it’s also somewhere I can “put them” to make sure that the relationship stays current and can deepen.  I am also currently writing a book for women lawyers, which means I invite many women lawyers to lunch to hear about their experiences.  It means I get to have lunch with some amazing women, hear their stories and create a deep relationship with each and every one of them.  I certainly like them - and I hope they like me, at least a little bit!

You might want to think about the shared interests some of your clients might have - and these can be professional or personal.  When she was a young mother, Sharon Lewis, who is a partner at Hogan Lovells in Paris, would book cheap tickets for Roland Garros, the French tennis championship and invite clients who were themselves young mothers.  They would all take their children and have lunch at the canteen.  It didn’t cost very much and it solved problems for everyone - the kids got to be with their mothers and to play with other kids, it created a strong community of women in the same situation and, best of all, she didn’t need to do any marketing because all the clients were doing her marketing for her. But it can be anything - think about what you like doing and ask other people to do that with you.  Get creative with it - your potential clients will love you for it!

So, we’ve gone from “know of you” to “know you” to “like you”.  The next step in the funnel is getting them to trust you.  This is where more intimate, one-on-one lunches or drinks might come in, to really build the relationship.

We started this conversation talking about data - researching where your clients are coming from - and I’d like to finish with data.  Here are two things that you should be tracking: 

• You should know where people are in your funnel — who knows you, who likes you, who trusts you — and focus on moving them further and further down the funnel.  It’s fine if some stay at a particular stage for a long time. Just keep track.  By doing that, you can then focus more on the people who are the most likely to work with you - those who already trust you, and think even more about what their problems are and how you can serve them.

• measure what’s working.  Measure:  

• Which activities have brought you the most clients and what’s been the most effective?

• If your firm has a marketing department, use them. It’s very likely they will have some great tools to help you.

In the same way that if you refine your niche, you will attract more clients, so the more you refine your marketing, the more clients you’ll attract — and the more natural, enjoyable and sustainable your marketing will feel.

I feel as though this has been a mega-episode so let’s summarise what we’ve covered.  We’ve looked at three main things:

• first, focus on what actually works by looking at the data — identify where your clients come from and concentrate your energy there instead of trying to do it all.

• second, start building relationships long before you need them, both inside and outside your firm, by helping others and creating genuine connections. 

• And third, create a simple system based on the “know, like, trust” funnel — make sure people know you exist, get to know you, and ultimately trust you. When you do that, marketing becomes natural, sustainable and far more effective.

That’s it for today’s episode of The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.

Marketing is a profession in itself, so we clearly won’t cover it all in one episode, but I hope that you are feeling a little less as though you need to do it all and a little more confidence in your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, share it with another woman lawyer, and leave a quick review — it helps us reach even more brilliant women in law.

You can also visit ceciliapoullain.com to explore my coaching programmes, upcoming events and free tools to support your growth.

Thanks for listening.

Podcast Ep. 7: Positioning for Women Lawyers

When your practice area is too broad, you don’t know which conferences to go to, which journals to pitch to or what to say on social media—so you end up posting boring LinkedIn posts about recent case law.  Now, that’s not going to build a clear brand or attract your ideal client, believe me.

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.  On this podcast, we talk about what it really takes to succeed as a woman lawyer in a law firm.

My name is Cecilia Poullain and I’m a former finance lawyer.  Today, I help women lawyers make it to partnership and thrive when they get there using the tools and insights I’ve developed in my Pathway to Partnership programme. 

In this podcast, you’ll get clarity on whether partnership is truly what you want, you will build your confidence and you will master client development in a way that feels sustainable.

So let’s get you walking into the office every morning clear on why you’re aiming for partnership, free of imposter syndrome and confident in your ability to bring in clients without burning out.

OK, let’s jump in.

Positioning Yourself as a Lawyer

Intro
Just before the summer, a client sent me her business plan to review.  The main thing that struck me as I was reading through it was that she was planning to do everything:  write a book, start a podcast, write articles, run conferences, post on LinkedIn, client lunches…  But before working on her business plan, we backed up a couple of steps.  Because not only did she want to do everything, she also was trying to cover four different types of client.  That was going to make her life so much more difficult.

Why do women lawyers think like this?  It’s because they are incredibly intelligent, highly educated women so they can actually do an awful lot of things—and so they think they should.  

At the same time, there is a real tension between developing your skills as a lawyer, not getting bored,  becoming a great lawyer because you have looked at things from so many different angles - and developing a brand, and we’ll look at how to at least partially resolve that tension in a moment.

The Problem
First let’s look at what happens when your brand is too broad:

• People don’t really know what you do.  Even when you’re talking to people inside your firm, they might not really understand, and that is magnified with lawyers outside your firm who might refer you work and clients.

• Clients and referral lawyers don’t come to you because you look like a generalist who does everything OK instead of a specialist.  Think GP vs heart surgeon. And, if you’re a generalist, it means you can’t charge specialist rates.

• You end up spending too little time on too many things and not doing any of them well.

But it also means that in terms of marketing, you don’t know which conferences to go to, which journals to write for, what to say on social media—so you end up posting bland, boring LinkedIn posts about recent case law.  Now, that’s not going to build a clear brand or attract your ideal client.

Why Positioning Works

But when you start to position yourself in the market, your life gets so much easier. Why? 

• Because you develop your deep legal expertise faster in that particular area.

• You start to understand your clients’ specific problems—and not only do you get better at solving those problems, but also, in your marketing, you can speak directly to your clients’ problems, which will absolutely catch their attention.

• Your marketing becomes so much easier because you know what to post, where to go, what to write.  And you only have to do what you like - you don’t have to do it all.  You know where your clients are likely to come from.  Perhaps they are quite a narrow group and you already know them all - for example, private equity firms or aviation companies, in which case posting on LinkedIn is useless - you’re much better off contacting them directly.  But if your potential audience is very broad, as may be the case with personal injury litigation, for example, LinkedIn or even Facebook will be your friend.  Your marketing depends on your positioning.

The Downsides & Nuance
Positioning isn’t all upside. There are risks.

1. Too narrow = risky
   If regulations change or the market shifts, you could be left stranded. A friend told me about a woman partner who had a thriving practice in a very niche area until the market changed and disappeared from underneath her and it was too late in her career to change her focus.  She retired soon afterwards. 
   

2. Too niche = no work
   When I was a derivatives lawyer in France, there just wasn’t enough work in that area for external counsel. So even though that was my brand, I had to work on broader finance matters.  Seth Godin:  “smallest VIABLE audience”.
   

3. Too niche = you get bored
   Doing only one thing for years? That can burn you out. Years ago, I heard of a U.S. firm where lawyers had to change specialties every 5 years. It made them well-rounded and collaborative, but… it was also exhausting.

There’s a real balancing act here—finding focus without boxing yourself in. 

Ways to Position Yourself
Positioning yourself doesn’t have to be all-or-nothing. There are many ways to approach it:

1. Fully Niche
   Go all in. Pick one area. Abandon the rest.

2. Front-Facing Niche
   Brand yourself in one area publicly, but still take other work behind the scenes.  That’s what I do - my brand is working with women lawyers to become partner.  But I also work with a lot of women general counsel or heads of legal departments and also a few men.

3. Broader Niche
   Choose an umbrella—like “private client” or “business law”—which gives you more flexibility but it’s still focused enough for people to identify what you do.  E.g. Clara - she was doing human rights litigation and also working with corporate clients on compliance. Instead of choosing one or the other, she went upwards and found an umbrella title that found the similarities and covered them both.  In particular, she was able to market to her corporate clients that she was in court and really knew what risks they should be looking out for.

4. Audience-Based Niche
   Niche by who you serve, not what you do—e.g. “legal advisor for startups” or “lawyer for healthcare professionals.”  A law firm opened up around the corner from my place recently that specialises in law for old people.

5. Problem-Based Niche
   Focus on a particular pain point—like “helping creatives protect their work” or “shareholder disputes.”

6. Phased Niching
   Start broad, build a wide experience as a lawyer, then gradually narrow as you figure out what you love doing and what there is a market for.  It’s okay for your positioning to evolve.

7. Campaign Niching
   Position yourself for a season. Example: “This quarter, I’m helping families set up trusts for aging parents.” It creates urgency - if people need that help then they are more likely to reach out for it if they know there is a deadline -  and it also means you test whether you have your “smallest viable audience”.  I would suggest you test this for long enough - I don’t think 3 months is enough because often our marketing activities only start to bear fruit after 3 months.

Reflection Questions
Here are a few questions you might like to ask yourself to help you think about your own direction:

• What kind of work do you really love doing?  

• Who are the clients you love working for?

• If you said naturally what you did, what would you say?

• What are you already becoming known for—even if you didn’t plan it that way?

• Where do your best clients come from?  Why did they pick you?

Wrap-Up & CTA
So to sum up—positioning helps you stand out, connect deeply with your ideal client, and make smarter choices in how you market and grow. But it is a balancing act. And, particularly for younger lawyers, it’s okay to evolve over time.

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode has given you greater clarity and confidence on your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, please share it with a colleague who might find it useful, please leave a review — let’s together help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you’d like to go deeper, head over to www.ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Thanks for listening.

Podcast Ep. 6: How Women Lawyers can be Heard in Meetings

When I ask women lawyers how competent they are on a scale from 1 to 10, they almost always say 9/10.  But when I ask them how confident they are, they almost always say 5/10.  Which is why too many law firms end up with the most confident people as partners but not necessarily the most competent.  

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast — where women lawyers come to figure out what success really looks like for them.

I’m Cecilia Poullain — I used to be a finance lawyer. Now I coach women lawyers who want to make partner without losing themselves in the process.

Each week, we’ll explore the three pillars of my Pathway to Partnership programme:  clarity, confidence and client development — so you can grow your career with focus, courage and authenticity.

Let’s go.

How to Be Heard in Meetings

If you’re a woman lawyer, I’m guessing you’ve been in meetings in which you have been interrupted, talked over or ignored.  Actually, I’m not guessing - I know.  Because in 2020, I did a survey of women lawyers in France, the UK and the US, and all the women spontaneously told me that they were so sick of being interrupted in meetings.

And not only interrupted.  They were sick of having their ideas stolen or ignored.

The very first Firm Women breakfast that I held in Paris in July 2024 was on exactly this topic. There was such an overwhelming reaction, everybody had so many examples that we didn’t have time to get to solutions, so I organised a second breakfast on the same theme.

Here’s are a couple of examples:

I had a client who was a partner in an international law firm and her ideas were consistently ignored by the partners in her office.  Once they were looking for a new courier company and she suggested, quite sensibly, that they use one of the big international firms.  Her suggestion was completely ignored and they decided to use a local courier company - only to change back six months later to exactly the same international courier company she had suggested.  She was furious. 

Here’s another example that comes from a professor of law.  She was in a meeting when a colleague referred to “his paper”.  She said:  “I think that would be “our paper” actually”.  In fact, it was entirely her work.  And even though other people around the table knew that, she was severely criticised in the meeting for making that remark and nobody stood up for her.  After the meeting, some of the people who had witnessed what happened came up to her to say how appalling his behaviour had been.

Women are being interrupted by both men and women - it’s not just a male / female thing.  There is a ton of research that shows that women’s voices generally are less recognised in our society.  I now notice myself not taking women as seriously as men.

In their book “Women & Leadership”, Julia Gillard, former Australian prime minister, and Ngozi Okonjo-Iweala, former minister of foreign affairs of Nigeria, quote Michelle Bachelet, former president of Chile:  “A male colleague, who was also an advisor to the minister, said to me:  “I know that you gave the idea and I just repeated it in another way.” So some men are consciously using the fact that they are listened to more than women and feel quite happy in stealing their ideas.  This drives women crazy.

Women are in a double bind.  Either they can raise their voices so that they are heard, but then they are criticised as “hysterical”, “acting like a man” or “inauthentic” or they are ignored or have their ideas stolen.

It doesn’t happen in every law firm and in every department, obviously.  There are a lot of people out there who are very respectful of everyone’s point of view.  But it still happens way too much. 

Impact

• Incredibly frustrating for the women - especially if they don’t know how to deal with it.  But it goes much further than that.

• Means women lawyers aren’t seen as partner material - meetings are often where people are judged for their talent.

• Means more confident people - often men - are promoted over women, who are often more anxious, less confident but more competent.  When I ask women on a scale from 1 to 10 how competent they are, they almost always say 9/10.  When I ask them how confident they are, they almost always say 5/10.  So it means law firms end up with the most confident people but not the most competent people as partners.  You need a certain level of confidence, but there is a level of confidence that is “enough” and a certain level that is “too much”.

• Hearing stories are male solicitors who are on massive salaries and they go from firm to firm, saying “this is how much I was on, so I must be worth it” but it turns out they are useless.  That’s what happens when you recruit over-confident people.  

• Means women shut themselves down.  Worry about speaking in meetings in case they are criticised or interrupted.  A participant in a workshop I did years ago said:  “the boss was so rude to me in that meeting that I decided that I would never, ever speak in that meeting again”.  What a terrible waste of her talent and ideas and of the talent and ideas of so many women lawyers and women generally.

What to do about it

• Get very clear on what you want.  How do you know?  Listen to your emotions instead of what other people are telling you to do.  Then work out how you’re going to get it.  Gives you an enormous amount of power and charisma and people will listen to you.

• Use meta-communication.  Meta-communication means communicating about how we’re communicating, and saying things like:  “You probably don’t realise, but that’s the third time you’ve interrupted me in this meeting” or “I’ve noticed that some of us don’t say much in these meetings and others are doing all the talking.  I’m getting pretty frustrated about that.”

• Very simply saying:  “I’m not finished yet”.

• Asking other people to support you in the meeting if it’s a meeting in which you’re systematically interrupted - they might say something like:  “I don’t think Chris finished what she was saying a moment ago - I’d like to hear more.”  It also means helping others get back into the conversation.  

• Using amplification.

• Saying:  “I’m so glad you agree with the idea I just expressed.”

• Talk about our experiences as women - men often have no idea.  Ran a series of workshops recently.  In one of the workshops, we mentioned this problem and to his credit, one of the men had checked with women around him whether they were constantly interrupted.  He was amazed to find that they all said it was a problem.

• Each time it happens, instead of getting down or annoyed about it, use it as practice.  Notice what is happening, notice what works and what doesn’t. It’s all just practice.

• Encouragingly, some women have told me that when they get senior enough, the problem disappears.  They are even more respected because people know how hard it is for women to reach those positions.

This is what we’ve covered in this episode:

• This is a major problem - women are systematically being silenced, which is incredibly frustrating.  It means they shut themselves down and it means they aren’t reaching their full potential.

• The impact in many law firms is that the most confident people, not the most competent people, are being asked to join the partnership.

• There are a number of tools to deal with it, including getting clear on what you want and asking for it, getting help from others in the meeting and meta-communication.

Practice:

Do you have a meeting coming up?  If you do, and most of us do, you might want to take a moment to think about how you want to turn up in the meeting, what energy you want to bring to it and how you want to be perceived.  What technique would you like to practice?

If this is a frequent problem, reach out to me.

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode has given you a realisation that you are not the only one being interrupted or ignored and a few useful techniques to deal with it when it happens.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, please share it with a colleague who might find it useful, please leave a review — let’s together help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you’d like to go deeper, head over to ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Thanks for listening.

Podcast Ep. 5: Setting Boundaries: a Delicate Balance for Women Lawyers

You would be surprised how often the lawyers I work with simply don’t realise that it is possible to speak up in a particular situation.  They presume they have no power and have to do exactly what is asked of them.  

You’re listening to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast — the place for ambitious women lawyers who want to thrive in law firms, not just survive.

My name is Cecilia Poullain and I am a former finance lawyer who now helps women lawyers make partner with clarity, confidence and clients.

Together, we’ll unpack the real skills behind success in law — from navigating power dynamics and overcoming imposter syndrome to building a book of business and shaping a career that works for you.

If you’re ready to bring purpose, confidence and strategy to your pathway to partnership — you’re in the right place.

Let’s get started.

5. Setting Boundaries:  A Delicate Balance

Hook:  We all know we should be setting boundaries.  People talk about boundaries all the time.  But the difficult thing, especially when you work in a law firm, is knowing which boundaries to set.  

As a lawyer, it’s easy to go to extremes. At one extreme, you can end up working all hours of the day and night, weekends, missing dinners, missing weekends away, accepting poor treatment, doing what partners or clients ask you to do. Or you can swing the other way and focus only on your own needs.  We all know people who say “I need” and it drives everybody crazy. The real challenge is finding the right balance.

In this episode, I’m focussing on two types of boundaries, time and behaviour. How you allocate your energy and your time and how you allow yourself to be treated.

But there are other sorts of boundaries, in particular ethical boundaries or deciding how to act when something clashes with your values - deciding what will you or won’t you do?  We’ll look at those in a later episode.

What happens when you don’t set boundaries at all? 

A senior partner in a major UK law firm told me about a brilliant young trainee.  The trainee had a dinner with her family on a Friday night, so the partner negotiated with the client that they wouldn’t get their email until Monday morning.  But then, the partner was annoyed to see that the trainee had skipped the dinner with her family and sent the email out to the client at 11 p.m. that night.  The following week, the partner reprimanded the trainee - the trainee was upset because she was so used to being perfect and she thought she had done the right thing.  But the partner told her this: if you keep this up, you’ll start to hate this job and you’ll burn out.  They will be the consequences if you don’t set any boundaries in relation to your work-life balance.

So that’s one example of somebody who wasn’t setting any boundaries at all.

If your aim is to become a partner in a law firm, you need a strong support network at home —people who are aware what it’s going to take to make it and are willing to make those compromises and be flexible, but not too flexible.   Sometimes your partner, your friends or your family need to be the ones saying:  this weekend you are not working. This wedding, this dinner, this event matters more.   Without that, the sacrifices of partnership can consume everything. 

And if two lawyers are in a relationship together that’s especially tricky. Without someone outside the system saying “enough,” neither of you puts limits in place.

Boundaries also show up in behaviour. One of my clients was working with a partner who often spoke to her aggressively or treated her badly - and unfortunately she is not alone on the receiving end of that sort of treatment.  For a long time, she simply accepted it.  She believed that she was meant to accept it.  But it had major consequences on the way she behaved because, in order to avoid a cutting remark, she was always second guessing his reaction.  So you can imagine how exhausting that was.

But after we’d worked together for a while, she finally built up the courage to say to him:  “listen, if you keep speaking to me like that, I’m going to leave the room.”  She was terrified when she said it, but it changed everything in their relationship - the next day, he was smiling, he was joking with her and he was treating her with so much more respect.  Young lawyers often think they have to do everything the partners ask of them - but it’s simply not true.  If you’re good at what you do, you have way more power than you think.  The partners need you.  They don’t want you to leave and they don’t want to have to find someone to replace you.  And that gives you power.

What happens when you set boundaries that are too rigid? 

I’ve been hearing lots of complaints that the latest generation of young lawyers who are saying things like:  “sorry, I have to go - I have a dinner tonight” and leaving the seniors lawyers to finish work that needs to be done for the next day.  This is exacerbated by remote working where sometimes the younger lawyers don’t realise that everyone else is still hard at it and they clock off even though they are still needed.  

When young lawyers do this, this has a massive impact on the stress of those who have to cover.  It means they lose trust in their younger colleague and it also means the client ends up paying partner or senior associate rates for work that should have been done by juniors.  And the partners are annoyed because they are working late on something that should have been done by someone more junior and they feel as though they had to work really hard to become a partner and that things ought to be easier now.

Some junior lawyers aren’t like that.  A partner was telling me about a meeting each week to make sure that work is fairly distributed across the team.  She realised that two of the more junior lawyers had way too much on their plate and redistributed their files off them. Within an hour, both those lawyers were back in her office asking her to give them their files back.  Those particular juniors were happy working until midnight because it was more important for them to get the experience.  

So what’s the middle ground? 

How do you know what boundaries to set?

The starting point is to listen to your emotions.  If something is starting to irritate you, that is a clear indication that a boundary is being stepped over - that, according to your unique value system, what is happening isn’t fair.  

But that’s only the starting point.  The next step is to look as objectively as possible at the whole situation.  What does the client need here?  Is that a “need” or a “want”?  How much negotiation room is there?  And the same with the partner or more senior lawyer - what is their position?  How much time do they need to review your work in order to meet the client’s deadline, for example.  It may be that you don’t have all the information.

And then think about what you might be able to communicate in the situation.  Very, very often, the lawyers I work with don’t even realise that it is possible to speak up in a particular situation - they presume that they have no power and just need to do what is asked of them.  

That’s why I do a lot of role play in sessions with my clients - so that they can start to see how it feels to express certain needs.  Sometimes, what they first say isn’t quite right, so they adjust until they have a phrase or phrases that they feel comfortable with.  I am able to reflect back how what they say impacts me - of course, it’s only my experience, but at least it is an external point of view.

It is incredibly powerful when you understand that it is OK to ask, and asking in a way that takes into account both your needs, the needs of your family, the needs of the more senior lawyer and the needs of the client.  

The message really is:  You don’t have to set boundaries all by yourself and in fact, you probably shouldn’t.  It’s by having conversations with the people around you that you can adapt, share information and define the right boundaries for everybody. 

The best workplaces are the ones where there’s trust to have open conversations. I’ve met so many women partners who create this kind of culture. Where juniors feel they can say: I’m exhausted. I have a personal commitment—can we work around it? Or even “I’m feeling stressed” without wanting the partner to do anything particular about it.  That openness makes boundaries work for everyone.

So setting boundaries isn’t about being selfish and it isn’t about accepting anything and everything. It’s about balance, communication and trust. Get them wrong, and you risk either burnout or a damaged reputation. Get them right, and you build a career that is satisfying and sustainable.

Conclusion

Just to recap. Here are the three big messages from this episode:

First, being irritated or angry is a signal that your personal boundaries are being stepped over. 

Second, boundaries only work if they take into account everybody’s needs in the situation and that requires communication.  

And third, balance is the goal. Not saying yes to everything, not saying no to everything — but calibrating between your needs, your team’s needs, your family’s needs, the client’s needs. As with anything, tt takes practice and you’ll sometimes get it wrong but if you aim to have reasonable boundaries, that’s where your career will be successful, enjoyable and sustainable.

Outro
That’s it for today’s episode of The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.

I hope you’re walking away with some practical insights and renewed confidence for your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this episode, don’t forget to subscribe, share it with another woman lawyer, and leave a quick review — it helps us reach even more brilliant women in law.

You can also visit ceciliapoullain.com to explore my coaching programmes, upcoming events and free tools to support your growth.

Thanks again for listening.

Podcast Ep. 4: The Perfectionism Trap for Women Lawyers

So you can see how by expecting ourselves to be perfect, we hold ourselves back.  And this plays out every day in law firms where women are not speaking up in meetings or on clients calls or in training sessions or on stages because they aren’t 100% sure of what they’re going to say and they’re terrified of making a mistake.

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast — the show where we talk honestly about what it takes to build a successful, fulfilling career as a woman lawyer.

I’m Cecilia Poullain, a former finance lawyer turned executive coach, and I help women lawyers make it to partnership — on their own terms.

In each episode, I’ll share the tools, strategies and stories that help you get clear on your goals, build unshakeable confidence and master client development in a way that feels authentic and sustainable.

Let’s dive in.

Episode 4: The Perfectionism Trap

Hook
The theme for the last episode, Episode 3, was “Moving from Lawyer to Leader”.  In this episode, I want to give you a number of concrete strategies for moving from perfectionism to excellence because that is what is required if you are going to move from being a great lawyer to being a great leader and becoming a partner.

Story  

I was working with a client a month or so ago.  She was worried about doing training sessions for the younger lawyers in her department because the senior equity partners were going to be there.  She was worried she would make a mistake or say something stupid - in other words, she was terrified that the equity partners would find out that she wasn’t perfect.  She mentioned that, then wanted to quickly move on to another topic, but I pulled her back because this was massively important.  Because she was scared of making a mistake, her initial reaction was simply not to do the training.  

But then we talked it through.  And here are some of the things she realised:

• That 97% of what she said was very likely to be correct.  She wouldn’t be taking a huge risk.

• That it was an amazing chance to learn both by doing the training and from the equity partners:  Label from a tea bag many years ago which stuck on the bottom of my computer screen:  “To learn, read.  To understand, write.  To master, teach”.  

• That if she did make a mistake, they wouldn’t be rude or mean to her.  They would be very kind about it.

• Maybe there were different points of view, and her “mistake” would open up an interesting discussion.  

• Maybe the junior lawyers also had the same misconception so it was a chance to clear it up for everybody.

• Finally, she realised that the consequences of making a mistake were, essentially, zero.  That it was far better to make that mistake in a training session than in the heat of negotiations on an €500 million deal. 

So why do we stop ourselves from speaking up?  The reason is that what we’re really terrified of is feeling ashamed.  Because when we feel ashamed, it feels like you want to disappear.  So that’s a pretty strong feeling and it’s not surprising we try to avoid it.  Because we really, really don’t want to feel ashamed.

But by expecting ourselves to be perfect, we hold ourselves back.  And this plays out every day for women in law firms.  Because they are terrified of not being perfect and feeling shame, women lawyers are not speaking up in meetings or on clients calls or in training sessions or on stages because they’re not 100% sure of what they’re going to say and they’re terrified of making a mistake.

It’s interesting, because my clients tell me all the time that as they approach partnership, the senior partners are actually encouraging them to speak up more - but despite that, they still find it difficult to do so.  And sometimes, there are other things going on and actually the partner themselves is unconsciously making it more difficult for the woman to speak up, perhaps by interrupting her or by dominating the meeting or by throwing her in the deep end and not giving her the chance to prepare properly. So there is often a lot to unpack in this dynamic.

From perfectionism to excellence

In a moment, I’d like to give you some tools and concepts that you can use in those moments when you’re hesitating about speaking up.

• But first, let’s look at the difference between perfectionism and excellence.  The little gap analogy.

• Risk coin

• Listening more to yourself and less to others: perfectionism is often driven by the urge to please.  Confidence is believing in your ideas, what you think, trusting your gut instincts - listening to others but ultimately being prepared to trust yourself.

• Calibrated risk. E.g. Want to speak on this client call - ask the partner if that’s appropriate and to back you. 

• It means finding what works for you. For some, “fake it till you make it” works. For others, especially more introverted lawyers, it doesn’t — and may even make things worse. A great resource here is Heidi K. Brown’s book The Introverted Lawyer.  Take small steps, have a plan, backing yourself.  Medici Law - practice pleadings.

Reflection moment

Think back to last week. Was there a moment when you stayed quiet because you weren’t 100% sure what to say? That’s perfectionism at work.

Now imagine what would have happened - what were the risks you were taking - if you had spoken up anyway.

And in the coming week, perhaps notice the moments when you’re choosing to stay quiet and perhaps, make a different choice this time.

We’ve looked at:

• How women lawyers are holding themselves back every day in law firms around the world because they are terrified of making a mistake.

• The difference between perfectionism and excellence

• Some concepts to help us move from perfectionism to excellence, including “the little gap”, the risk coin and listening to yourself more. 

• Taking calibrated risk - having a plan and taking small steps so you don’t put yourself into highly stressful, unmanageable situations.

Closing thought

Perfectionism feels safe and it feels satisfying. But it also stops you from making mistakes — and from learning from them. Excellence, on the other hand, is what you need to move from lawyer to leader. 

Outro
Thank you for tuning in to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.

I hope today’s episode has given you something to reflect on — a spark of clarity, a boost of confidence, or simply the reminder that you’re not alone on this journey.

If you found this episode helpful, I would really appreciate it if you could follow the show, share it with a colleague or friend, and leave a quick review — it really helps more women lawyers find these conversations.

And if you’d like to go deeper, you’ll find plenty of free resources and coaching opportunities at www.ceciliapoullain.com.

See you next time.

Podcast Ep. 3: From Lawyer to Leader

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast.  On this podcast, we talk about what it takes to succeed as a woman lawyer in a law firm.

My name is Cecilia Poullain and I’m a former finance lawyer.  I now help women lawyers make it to partnership, using the tools and insights I’ve developed in my Pathway to Partnership programme. In this podcast, you’ll get clarity on whether partnership is truly what you want, you will build your confidence and you will master client development in a way that feels sustainable, in a way that works for you.

So let’s get you walking into the office every morning clear on why you’re aiming for partnership, free of imposter syndrome and confident in your ability to bring in clients without burning out.

OK, let’s jump in.

From Lawyer to Leader

Hook
“I just want to be the best lawyer I can be”.  I hear this from women lawyers all the time.  But if you want to make partner, this simply isn’t enough.  Apart from all the other skills you need to develop, you also need to be seen as a leader.

The Problem

• It’s not that easy to go from being a great lawyer - to being the best lawyer you can be - to stepping into leadership.  It’s not the same skill set.

• Ailsa Davies.  Women lawyers who are very passive in their careers:  they are often meticulous, reliable, conscientious, but they’re scared about taking risks, scared about exposure, terrified of making mistakes.

• Women are being yelled at, interrupted, shut down.  They hear the negative far more than the positive, appalling management in law firms generally… because lawyers don’t learn to be leaders and managers.  Has a big impact on the younger women lawyers in the firm.

What is a leader?
Distinction between a leader and manager.  A manager tends to focus on getting the job done. A leader, on the other hand, defines the common goal and inspires and empowers people to work together towards it. 

A leader is someone who is prepared to make the decisions.  Can be scary, because you’re often alone in making those decisions and you will be judged, sometimes harshly.  That can be terrifying, especially for women.

The Solution

• More risk

  - Talk about women having to take more risk — yes and no. Depends which risks we’re talking about.  Christine Lagarde - financial crisis - too much testosterone in the trading rooms of banks.  Not taking more risk in the decisions we’re making, but taking the risk of being exposed and of being criticised.  The risk of putting yourself out there.  If the idea of exposure sounds terrifying, if you’re the type of person who absolutely hates speaking in public, for example, that’s something that can be learned to do in ways that work for you.  Because for some lawyers, fake it until you make it doesn’t work.  So I would suggest you reach out for help to me or somebody else if that sounds like you. 

  - But if you’re OK with exposure, perhaps you need to be looking at whether you are taking enough risk to be seen.

Moving from passive to proactive

• Kelly Nolan talks about this on her podcast in relation to time management for professional women — you go from being reactive and having no control over your calendar to having to schedule time for deep thought because that’s what you’re paid for.

• Same with moving from lawyer to leader — move from producing perfect work and becoming a great lawyer to becoming far more proactive in the way you show.  In a moment, we’ll look at what “pro-active” can look like. 

• Moving from “perfection” - can feel very seductive and very satisfying - and producing work to taking ownership of your career.

What does ‘being proactive” look like?
It means:

• It means speaking up more in meetings and on client calls, even if you’re not 100% sure you’re right.  Doesn’t mean being suicidal.  Perhaps back yourself; ask the partner if you can take the lead, knowing that they are there if you don’t know the answer, and that’s OK.  It can be more comfortable not to speak up but if you want to become a leader then you need to get used to the discomfort.

• It means taking ownership of the relationships you want to create and the quality of those relationships (see episode 2)

• It means reaching out to partners so they know you

• It means taking ownership of your learning, working out what skills you need to become a partner and developing a plan to learn those skills — management skills or marketing skills or financial skills, for example.

• It means taking ownership of client development early, in whatever way works for you.  If you need support on that, I’m very happy to help.

How do you become not only a great lawyer but a great leader? 

• HUGE topic and a million resources out there about leadership.  Here are few thoughts:

  - Good to Great — Jim Collins.  Level V leaders.   The very best leaders are humble, take blame for mistakes, attribute their success to good luck rather than personal greatness and very ambitious for the company, not themselves and very, very persistent.  Million dollar question is:  how do you become a Level V Leader?  Jim Collins’ hypothesis is that there are two categories of people:  those who do not have the seed of Level V and those who do.  Under the right conditions, those who are able to subjugate their ego and under the right circumstances - self-reflection or conscious personal development - can develop into Level V leaders.  

  - “Crucial Conversations”:  Great leaders are those who know how to speak their mind and keep the conversation psychologically safe for everyone involved.  They aren’t aggressive and they aren’t silent.  These skills can be learned. 

  - Will Storr:  We need status and we need connection.  When we have status, we feel respected.  When we have connection, we feel we belong.  These are absolutely fundamental human needs and when we don’t get them, this has massive impacts on our health - but often they conflict.  How do we reconcile them?  By seeing leadership as example, by creating community, by teaching rather than as domination.

What happens when you adopt a “leader” mindset?

• You see that most of those risks aren’t risks at all — because there is only upside - learning so much faster

• When you start acting as a leader, you are seen as leadership material so you make partner faster

• Happier, feel more in control of your life and less at the mercy of others

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode has given you greater clarity and confidence on your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, share it with a colleague who might find it useful, and leave a review — let’s together help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you want to go deeper, head over to www.ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Thanks for listening.

Podcast Ep. 2: Who Can Help You on Your Partnership Journey as a Woman Lawyer?

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast, where we talk about what it takes to succeed as a woman lawyer in a law firm.

My name is Cecilia Poullain — I’m a former finance lawyer who now helps women lawyers make it to partnership, using the tools and insights I’ve developed in my Pathway to Partnership programme. In this podcast, you’ll get clarity on whether partnership is truly what you want, you will build your confidence and you will master client development in a way that feels sustainable.

Let’s get you walking into the office every morning clear on why you’re aiming for partnership, free of imposter syndrome and confident in your ability to bring in clients — without burning out.

OK, let’s get into it.

Who Can Help You on Your Partnership Journey?

I’d like to start this episode with a story from a client.  She told me a story that made me terribly sad but didn’t really surprise me.  She told that when she was a young lawyer, she cried every day on the way to work, dried her tears and smiled just before she walked into the front door of her firm, I wasn’t surprised. Law can be a very tough, very lonely profession — and too many lawyers think they have to carry it all alone.

In this episode, we’re looking at the three different types of relationships you need to be proactively building with people who can help you on your partnership journey.

Opening: The Problem

• Loneliness is a surprisingly big problem in law firms.  Surrounded by people but they still feel lonely. 

• With competitive, smart people who can sometimes be a little intolerant of weakness and fragility. 

• And lawyers themselves are used to succeeding - so when they feel they’re not, that can be a very new emotion for them.  

• So what do they do? 

  - They try to carry it all alone.

  - Talk to family or friends.

  - Might help, but often doesn’t.

  - They don’t understand the industry and they can’t really help you find solutions to your problems.

• The real issue: 

  - Recognise when you’re struggling

  - Think strategically about which relationships you actually need.

✅ The Core Solution

• Truth: you cannot be a successful lawyer without successful relationships.

• Three types of relationships you need to support your career. 

These are the different networks:

1. Emotional Support (for You)

• Different times in your career.

  - When you’re a young lawyer.

  - Approaching partnership.

  - When a new partner.

  - Can also be an issue with more senior lawyers, who find themselves isolated. 

• Crucial to be emotionally OK → otherwise you can’t be a great lawyer - or a great anything else.

• May be bringing people down around you.

• Not able to be proactive.

• Not 100% of the time - not realistic.

• Best support comes from people who understand the industry.

  - Coaches and therapists can really help.  Find someone you really resonate with who can help you work through various situations.

  - Communities like Firm Women breakfasts → recurring feedback: “Thank goodness I’m not alone.”  Gives you a much greater perspective on your problems.  Run in-person in Paris and also online for women outside Paris.

  - Groups of other lawyers within or outside the firm - you might want to start one.  Imagine if it ran for years and you got to know each incredibly well - amazing support.

  - Pathway to Partnership:  1:1 coaching + group.

If you’re feeling stressed, overwhelmed, depressed, or lonely → this is your #1 priority.  I can’t stress how critical this is.  I don’t want to see another talented, brilliant woman lawyer leaving the law because she wasn’t the emotional support she needed.

2. Career Support (for Your Growth)

Technical & Practical Help

• Many lawyers suffer from imposter syndrome.  The problem is, it’s not really imposter syndrome - a lot of lawyers, especially the younger ones, really don’t know what they’re doing.  And this is a massive source of stress for them.  If you don’t know what to do and are under tight deadlines to get it done, that is massively stressful.  So you really need this group of people.

• Colleagues, boss or peers in other firms.

• Friends in-house, lecturers, professional associations.

• Make it as reciprocal as possible.

Strategic:  Mentors, Sponsors & Coaches

• Women say that it’s not maternity leave or having small children that holds them back - it’s the lack of career support from more senior leaders.  Some less ethical partners do this on purpose.  Younger women lawyers - diligent. Very motivated.  If you’re not getting it, you need to reach out.  

• Distinction between mentors, sponsors & coaches.

• Inside and outside the firm.

• Coach to work through business plan, difficult relationships, where they’re lacking confidence strategic decisions.

Caveat:  don’t overwhelm the senior women!

3. Referral Lawyers

• Other lawyers are often your biggest referral source.

• Go back through your recent clients → many come from other lawyers, not just direct clients.

• Reciprocal - how can you be supporting their practice.  What might they need from you?

📝 Practical Exercise

Take 10 minutes after this episode to map your current network:

1. Who supports me emotionally?

2. Who helps me with technical or strategic issues?

3. Where does most of my work come from? 

4. Where are the gaps?

Circle the one gap that feels most urgent — and commit to taking one small step this week to start filling it.

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode has given you greater clarity and confidence on your own pathway to partnership.

If you enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, share it with a colleague who might find it useful, and leave a review — let’s together help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you want to go deeper, head over to www.ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

Podcast Ep. 1: How to Make Partner: The “Why” Every Woman Lawyer Needs

Welcome to The Pathway to Partnership Podcast, where we talk about what it really takes to succeed as a woman lawyer in a law firm.

I’m Cecilia Poullain — a former finance lawyer who now helps women lawyers make it to partnership, with the tools and insights I’ve developed in my Pathway to Partnership programme. In this podcast, you’ll get clarity on whether partnership is truly what you want, you will build your confidence and you will master client development in a way that feels sustainable.

Let’s get you walking into the office every morning clear on why you’re aiming for partnership, free of imposter syndrome and confident in your ability to bring in clients — without burning out.

Let’s dive in!

Simon Sinek famously says:  “Start with Why”, so that’s exactly where we’re going to start.

With the “why” of partnership.

For many women lawyers, partnership is the ultimate goal — the reason for all those lunches at your desk, late nights and weekends at the office.  Becoming a partner in a law firm, especially in the big international firms, can look incredibly glamorous from the outside.  You have the money, the public recognition, the status.  But it can also involve incredible sacrifices.  It can be really tough.  And the million dollar question is… is it all worth it?   How can you know if partnership is for you before you put in all the hard work?

In this episode, you’ll be learning:

1  Why it’s so important to ask yourself “why” before you get on the partnership track

2  What partnership really involves

3  What questions you can ask yourself in order to get clear on your “why”.

Personal Story
But before we get into it, and because this is the first episode and we don't know each yet, I’d like to share a little of my own story.

At school, I loved English and the humanities but I hated science. In Australia, good students did either medicine or law.  So for me, law seemed an obvious choice.  In addition, my father was a lawyer -  he was a partner at Minter Ellison, one of the big Australian law firms - and I really admired my father - he was my role model for so many years. For such a long time, I believed that partnership in a law firm was the be-all and end-all.

When I arrived in France in 1996, I found a job in the legal department of a bank and left the world of the law firm.  But I dreamed of going back, so I passed the French bar exams and got a job at an American law firm in Paris.

And I hated it. I didn’t fit and it didn’t fit me. When I asked myself why I was putting myself through that and why I wanted to be a partner, it turned out that I was basing myself on who my father was rather than on who I was.  And I was putting an enormous amount of pressure on myself to be perfect. 

Eventually, I realised what I really wanted was to support women lawyers. At first, I hesitated — should I work with women who were leaving the law, or women aiming for partnership? I chose partnership, because I wanted to help women who stay in firms influence the culture from the inside and to make law firms better places for women - and in fact, everyone - to work.

And it turned out to be perfect for me. I love what I do now — working with women who want to thrive in law and helping them ask the right questions before they step onto the partnership track.

I often talk to women who become partners simply because it’s the next logical step, or because it’s what their families or societies expect of them, or because the income and status is incredibly attractive — without thinking about what they want.  And then they feel trapped, under enormous pressure to bring in enough client work or doing all the different tasks involved running a business when in fact all they were interested in was the legal work.  That is so incredibly sad.  Lawyers are amazingly talented people - what a waste of their talent if they weren’t meant to be lawyers in the first place.

One of the biggest problems I see is that lawyers don’t fully understand all that becoming a partner involves.  All those things that nobody teaches you as a lawyer.   

Because as a partner, you are first and foremost a business owner.  That has a huge impact on how you spend your time.  As a partner, you need to:

• Manage a team.

• Recruit and develop talent.

• Bring in new business, which involves positioning yourself and your team, marketing and selling.

• Handle difficult conversations and conflicts, both inside the firm and with clients.

• Stay on top of the firm’s finances.

• Make decisions about the future of the firm.

Becoming a partner in a law firm is a fascinating, challenging role — but it’s not for everyone.
Some of the women I work with are absolutely focussed on partnership - there isn’t a shadow of doubt in their mind that that is where they are going.  They don’t even mention it.  And others aren’t so sure.  

So - how do you know?  If you’ve worked as a lawyer all your life, it can feel terrifying to even imagine doing something else altogether.  The thought of losing the status and income that goes with being a lawyer can feel as though you are losing yourself. How can you know that you want to do something different if you’ve never done it?

In addition, many, many women lawyers are so used to doing what is expected of them by their families or by society, or doing what they think is expected of them, that they no longer know what they want.  They live their lives second-guessing what other people think they should be doing.  They have completely lost touch with themselves.

In my experience, many lawyers have spent so much time developing their left-hand brain skills, their rational, factual brain skills, that they are not very in touch with their feelings.  When I ask my clients “how are you feeling right now?”, many of them tell me what they are thinking.  They simply don’t know what they are feeling any more.

But when you are working out how you want to spend your life, those feelings are critical information about what we need and what will make us happy. 

So, before you get onto the partnership track and spend all that time and energy in reaching for that goal, you need to ask yourself questions like:

• What do I love about the law?  

• What do I hate about it?

• What activities give me energy, both inside and outside work?  

• What do I really love doing?

• What drains or exhausts me?

• What gets me into “the zone”, where time seems to disappear?

• And finally, when I look at all the tasks required of partner, do I actually want to do them?  Do I want to be a business owner as well as a lawyer?     

If you discover, as you work through those questions, that you love the law, you love being a lawyer, you’re ready for all the entrepreneurial challenges that partnership brings, then go for it! Congratulations!  Leaving any residual doubts behind will release a ton of energy and help you achieve on the goal.  You have an incredibly fulfilling, interesting life ahead of you, working with intelligent people, full of challenges and opportunities.  

And if you discover that you don’t, then that’s OK.  You don’t have to resign this second, and you probably shouldn’t.  But at least you know that maybe, at some stage, you want to explore a different path.

Closing
So, just to recap, we’ve looked at: 

1  Why it’s so important to ask yourself “why” before you get onto the partnership track

2  That partnership involves so much more than just being a good lawyer - and not everyone is cut out for that or wants to do it

3  That your feelings are vital information about whether partnership lights you up or whether your incredible, unique talents would be better off elsewhere. 

Outro
Thank you so much for joining me on The Pathway to Partnership Podcast. I really appreciate it.  I hope that today’s episode gave you greater clarity and confidence on your own pathway to partnership.

If you’ve enjoyed this conversation, please subscribe, share it with a colleague who might find it useful, and leave a review — let’s help more women make it to partnership and thrive when they get there.  

And if you want to go deeper, head to www.ceciliapoullain.com where you’ll find resources and ways we can work together.

Until next time, remember: you don’t have to do this alone, and you get to define success as a woman lawyer on your own terms.

See you next time.

Hiring Without Values Is a Risk You Can’t Afford

Let me ask you something. When was the last time you stopped to consider your values?
Not your firm’s glossy mission statement. Not what’s printed on a poster in the HR office.
Your values.

If you're a woman lawyer navigating your career - particularly if you're aiming to become a partner in a law firm - I urge you: pause and take a good, hard look at what you stand for. Because here's the truth: Values are not optional. They’re essential.

Why Values Are More Than Just Words on a Wall

In the 1990s, corporate books like Built to Last by Jim Collins brought values into the business spotlight. Suddenly, companies everywhere were rushing to “define their values.” HR departments wrote up inspiring statements, printed them on beautiful paper, framed them in reception areas... and promptly forgot about them.

That’s not how values work.

Values aren't branding. They’re not slogans. They’re daily decisions. They’re guides for behavior. And in law firms, where pressure runs high and the stakes are often personal, values determine whether we act with integrity - or look the other way.

My Experience as a Woman in Law

Having worked in firms across Australia, the UK, and France, I’ve met exceptional lawyers. Most have been brilliant, principled professionals. But I’ve also witnessed conduct that should never have been tolerated - from subtle ethical breaches like wrongly charging client accounts, to more serious misconduct I won’t detail here.

What shocked me more than the misconduct itself? The way some firms responded - or rather, failed to respond.

There was no reference to values. No discussion of what kind of culture the firm was cultivating. Instead, there was hesitation, second-guessing, and fear of losing a “valuable” partner - even when that partner was eroding the firm's integrity from within.

If a firm’s values aren’t guiding decisions - including who stays and who goes - then those values are meaningless.

What Does This Mean for You?

If you’re a woman lawyer looking ahead to partnership, you must start with clarity:
Do your values align with your firm’s? And equally important: Does your firm actually live its values?

When you're interviewing with a firm, ask about their values. Better yet - observe whether they practice those values. Are junior lawyers respected? Are working parents supported? Is integrity upheld, or is bad behavior excused if the numbers look good?

And if you're hiring? Start by getting clear on the values you want to see in your team. Then, ask questions that probe for those values - not just experience or qualifications. For example:

• “Tell me about a time you stood up for something unpopular but important.”

• “What does ‘client commitment’ look like to you, especially under pressure?”

• “When have you chosen the harder, more ethical path - and why?”

My Business Values

Over the past months, I’ve been refining the values that drive my work as a coach and advisor to lawyers. Here’s where I’ve landed:

1. Integrity and Respect
   Uncompromising respect for the law, for clients, and for colleagues.

2. Client Commitment
   We do what it takes to help clients reach their goals - with generosity and focus.

3. Excellence Through Iteration
   We improve by trying, refining, learning - again and again.

4. Culture of Learning and Openness
   We stay curious. We listen, read, ask, disagree, and grow - especially from those different from us.

5. Balanced Work Ethic
   We work with intensity and rest with intention.

6. Trusted, Caring Professionals
   Everyone we engage with - clients, suppliers, team - is treated with care and professionalism.

These aren’t just statements. They’re principles I return to again and again - when making decisions, when evaluating relationships, when navigating challenges.

For Women Lawyers on the Path to Partnership

If you’re a woman lawyer who wants to make partner in a law firm, here’s my invitation to you:

• Don’t leave values at the door.

• Don’t assume a firm’s values are lived just because they’re written.

• Don’t compromise your own.

A values-driven lawyer is a powerful lawyer. And a values-driven partner? That’s the kind of leader the profession - and the world - desperately needs.

If you’re thinking seriously about partnership, I’ve created a free guide: “How to Make Partner in a Law Firm”. It outlines the hidden obstacles my clients have faced, and the strategies that helped them move forward.

👉 Grab your copy here: https://www.ceciliapoullain.com/free-guide

And until next time, remember: Your values are your compass. Use them.

Warmly,
Cecilia

Source: LinkedIn Live: https://www.linkedin.com/events/hiringwithoutvaluesisariskyouca7338852754729148417/theater/

The Power of Speaking Up and Refusing to Shrink

How anxiety keeps talented women lawyers from partnership

The confidence gap: Many women quietly disqualify themselves from the partnership track because they are afraid, writes Cecilia Poullain.

C is eight years PQE and works at one of the top French law firms. She’s an excellent lawyer – conscientious, thorough, and hardworking – yet she’s still terrified of speaking up in meetings. Eight years qualified, and still staying silent. Wow.

She knows it’s hurting her partnership prospects, but she doesn’t know how to change. She finds it incredibly frustrating, but speaking up still feels too frightening.

I know exactly how she feels. When I returned to private practice after five years in-house, I felt the same way. I would sit in meetings, wanting to participate but unsure whether what I was going to say was exactly right. It felt safer to stay silent than to risk saying something wrong – or worse, something stupid.

Of course, not all women lawyers feel this way. Many are confident and determined to make partner – and they go for it. Yet, in many Western jurisdictions, where women outnumber men among law graduates and junior associates, men still dominate at partnership level.

One major – but often overlooked – factor is anxiety. Many women quietly disqualify themselves from the partnership track because they are afraid. Afraid of exposure. Afraid of not being good enough. Afraid they won’t bring in enough business.

This anxiety is costing women dearly – and costing law firms the talent they need to thrive.

Why this matters

Despite a growing backlash against diversity and inclusion (D&I) programs, many law firms still recognise that gender-balanced leadership boosts profitability. They understand the value of demographic and cognitive diversity – but often miss the invisible barriers preventing it.

Sexism is still alive in law firms, though not always recognised by those who don’t experience it. One woman was told by a judge, “Let her speak – she’s cute.” Another was laid off during COVID-19 because her male colleagues “had families to support” – despite being her family’s main breadwinner. A male partner once remarked of a woman peer: “There’s something about her that’s just not right.” His colleague agreed, “She’s just not one of us.”

So, yes, sexism is still a problem – but so is anxiety.

Supporting women to manage anxiety isn’t just a D&I gesture – it’s good business. Building confidence benefits the lawyers, their firms, and their clients.

Perfectionism and fear of failure

When I returned to private practice, I found it terrifying. Clients were high-profile and demanding, and I felt pressure to have all the answers. I told myself that if I didn’t make partner, I’d failed. If I wasn’t completely sure of what I wanted to say, I said nothing at all.

When I did make mistakes – and I made plenty – I was devastated. I’d lie awake at night, replaying every misstep. I often cried in frustration.

I share this because many women – and some men – feel the same way. When I bring women lawyers together, they’re relieved to know they’re not alone.

Shame is one of the most painful emotions. It makes us want to disappear. To avoid it, many of us stay silent.

We crave external validation – it’s human. However, too much reliance on it can drive extreme perfectionism, especially in high-pressure legal environments. That shows up in women lawyers as:

• Working long hours but neglecting relationship-building.

• Discounting billable hours out of guilt.

• Avoiding public speaking or client events.

• Staying silent in meetings.

• Not building visibility within the firm.

The result? They become invisible. They miss out on promotion. Their firms miss out on their talent.

What can be done?

There are no quick fixes – but confidence and resilience can be built. Here’s how:

1. Pinpoint the real trigger

Start by noticing when anxiety arises. Is it constant, or linked to specific situations or people?

C, for example, realised her anxiety flared up only around one particular partner. He once asked her to lead a client meeting with no prep time, then later hijacked a meeting she’d prepared for. She felt ashamed – until she recognised it wasn’t her anxiety, but his poor leadership. Once she raised it with him, his behaviour changed.

2. Reframe risk as excitement

Think of risk as a coin. One side is fear; the other is excitement. You won’t know the outcome until you flip it. Both feelings show you care. Focus on the excitement before acting. If things go wrong, feel the disappointment – don’t suppress it. Acknowledging emotions helps them pass.

3. Challenge the catastrophe story

Ask yourself: How bad would it really be if I got this wrong? You might not sound like a seasoned partner – yet – but chances are, you’ll say something worthwhile. And if not? You can always follow up. Most worst-case scenarios exist only in our heads.

4. Use your imagination to ground yourself

Visualisation can help reduce anxiety. A simple technique: locate the fear in your body and accept it. Don’t fight it. Just notice it. That alone can take away some of its power.

5. Step into the fear – on purpose

Growth often feels like walking off a cliff. But fear doesn’t mean stop – it means you’re expanding. Acknowledge it. Then act.

6. Back your own judgment

Confidence isn’t about always being right. It’s about trusting your perspective – and acting on it. Your voice matters. Say what you think, even if others might disagree.

7. Practice in small doses

We expect to be brilliant in high-stakes moments without practice. But confidence is built incrementally. Start small: speak in low-risk meetings, ask a question, suggest an idea. Each moment is a chance to build muscle.

8. Value your time – and bill for it

Don’t undercharge because you think you worked “too slowly”. You’re still learning. Your time has value – charge for it. And remember: many male lawyers bill every second – and sometimes more than that.

Conclusion

Anxiety at work is normal. It shows we’re growing, stretching, and taking risks. A workplace without anxiety would be flat and unchallenging. And it’s not just a women’s issue – nor a weakness.

What matters is how we respond to it.

Law firms must recognise that many women lawyers experience far more anxiety than they show – and addressing it is not about lowering standards. It’s about unlocking potential. Leaders must adapt their approach to the individuals they manage. And women lawyers must find ways to manage anxiety before it manages them.

Cecilia Poullain is a Paris-based coach for women lawyers.

Source: Lawyers Weekly

How to Lead Better Meetings: Disagreement Without Damage

A few weeks ago, I shared some thoughts on how to contribute in meetings - even when you feel you don’t have anything groundbreaking to say. But in reflecting more deeply, I realised I had overlooked something crucial: conflict.

Yes, conflict. That word that makes most professionals sit up a little straighter - or want to run for the door.

But here’s the thing: If your meetings feel dull, unfocused or like they’re going nowhere… it’s probably because the real issues are being avoided. And when we avoid conflict, we also avoid the chance to move forward meaningfully.

Why Most Meetings Are Boring

Here’s what typically happens:

• People share information that could have easily been an email.

• Or worse, people don’t share what’s really on their minds.

So we sit in long, ineffective meetings where nobody disagrees out loud, and nobody learns anything new.

And yet, healthy teams and high-functioning leaders do engage in disagreement—but they do so constructively. They make space for ideas to be challenged without egos being bruised. That’s the kind of constructive conflict that drives real change. And it’s a skill. One we need to learn, model, and protect.

Constructive Conflict Is a Value - But Also a Practice

I recently read about law firms that list “constructive conflict” as one of their values. But too often, when someone in the team finds that environment uncomfortable, the response is, “Well, it’s just not for everyone.”

Frankly, that’s not good enough.

It’s not enough to say, “You don’t fit.”

The better question is: How do we create the conditions where people feel safe enough to engage in disagreement - especially those who find it hard to speak up?

This isn’t just a diversity issue. It’s a performance issue. And as an executive coach who works with global leaders, I can tell you: until people feel safe, they will hold back. And when they hold back, you miss out on their insight, creativity and brilliance.

First Comes Trust, Then Comes Conflict

In his book The Five Dysfunctions of a Team, Patrick Lencioni explains that trust is the foundation of every strong team. Without trust, you can’t get to the next level: productive conflict. And without that, forget about commitment, accountability or shared goals.

So how do we build trust?

Here are four ways I share with my clients:

1. Time and Testing
   Simply spending time together and seeing how people behave under pressure. Are they self-interested, or do they put the team first?

2. Personal Sharing
   Share something about your background. It doesn’t have to be deeply personal. Just enough to humanise the space.

3. Naming Strengths and Weaknesses
   Give honest, respectful feedback - and ask for it. When people stop second-guessing how others see them, trust builds fast.

4. Vulnerable Leadership
   Özgür Can Kahal, a brilliant lawyer at DLA Piper, once shared how she models vulnerability by naming what’s not going well—and doing it with confidence.
   “I’m struggling today.” “This didn’t go as planned.”
   When leaders go first in showing they don’t have to be perfect, they invite others to be real, too.

How to Make Conflict Safe Again

When trust is in place, we can finally begin to have constructive conflict - the kind where no one ends up emotionally wounded or checking their watch.

The book Crucial Conversations gives us a practical framework.
When someone in a meeting goes quiet - or reactive - it’s usually because they no longer feel safe. Your job isn’t to push harder. It’s to pause and restore psychological safety.

Here’s how:

1. Apologise
   If you’ve crossed a line, say so. And yes, this applies to senior leaders too. It takes courage, but it models humility.

2. Clarify Your Intentions
   “I didn’t mean X. What I meant was Y.” Often, the damage isn’t what we said - it’s what someone thought we meant.

3. Find Mutual Purpose
   Shift the focus to what everyone agrees on. Then go back to the points of disagreement from that shared foundation.

Ground Rules Make it Work

Whether I’m coaching a leadership team or facilitating a group, we always begin with ground rules:

• Confidentiality

• No judgment—positive or negative

• No unsolicited advice

Why no advice? Because advice puts you above someone. It assumes they don’t know what’s best for them. And in coaching, that’s not our belief.

In business meetings, your ground rules might differ, but the principle is the same:
Create a container where people feel safe to tell the truth.

Conflict Without Casualties

What we’re after isn’t more drama. It’s more truth. More clarity. More progress.

Constructive conflict allows people to express what matters before it turns into resentment or disengagement. And when it’s done right, no one bleeds. There’s no "blood on the floor" - just better decisions, stronger teams, and more courageous leadership.

If you're looking to develop these leadership skills in yourself or your team - I’d love to support you.

I've written a step-by-step guide to making partner that walks through some of the key barriers (including conflict avoidance!) that hold people back.

👉 Download it here: https://www.ceciliapoullain.com/free-guide

And if this sparked something in you - let’s keep the conversation going.
What’s your experience with conflict in meetings?
When has it worked, and when has it gone off the rails?

Until next time,
Warmly,
Cecilia

Source: LinkedIn Live: https://www.linkedin.com/events/howtoleadbettermeetings-disagre7336326514856153090/theater/

Be Where Your Clients Are. Less Time. More Impact.

A few weeks ago, I talked about niching - about truly understanding who your ideal client is. So I’m going to assume that you’re already there. You’ve defined your niche. You know exactly who you want to work with.

But here's where I see many brilliant lawyers getting stuck: even after identifying their niche, they try to do it all. They attend every legal conference. They post on LinkedIn religiously. They’re podcasting, publishing, pitching for rankings, writing for legal directories, networking at every possible client event - just ticking every box. Exhausted yet?

This pressure to be everywhere is not only overwhelming - it’s ineffective.

Let’s pause.

You Don’t Need to Do It All.

You need to be where your clients are.

That’s the distinction.

Too many lawyers conflate visibility with effectiveness. They assume that more activity equals more opportunity. But the key is targeted visibility. Once you know who your clients are, the next question must be: Where do they hang out? What are they reading? Who do they listen to?

Let me give you some examples:

• If your ideal clients are general counsel in a specific industry, and you already have access to that circle, why waste time broadcasting on LinkedIn to everyone else? Instead, go deeper. Create tailored events or thought leadership specifically for them. Meet them where they are. You’re not building a new audience - you already have one. Serve it.

• If your business relies on referrals from other law firms, then your focus should be on staying top of mind for those lawyers. That might mean attending key legal conferences where referrers gather, or even just nurturing those relationships one-on-one. If someone is looking for an arbitration lawyer in Paris, and that’s your niche, you want your name to be the first that comes up. So show up where those conversations are happening.

• If your client base is built through cross-selling within your own firm, your strategy is simpler still: make sure your colleagues understand what you do and how you can help their clients. A well-crafted internal PowerPoint and a few strategic conversations across offices can go further than 50 LinkedIn posts ever will.

It’s Not About Being Seen Everywhere.

It’s about being seen in the right places.

Just yesterday, a client asked me whether it was important to be listed in legal directories like Lexology or Chambers. And my answer was: It depends.

If you’re relying on lawyer-to-lawyer referrals, those ratings probably do matter - because other lawyers notice them. But if your clients are businesses with whom you already have direct relationships, they’re probably not even looking. I know I wasn’t, back when I was a client.

So, don’t be seduced by shiny distractions. Don’t waste your energy trying to be everywhere at once.

Instead, ask yourself:

• Where are my ideal clients actually spending their time?

• What do they read?

• Which conferences do they attend?

• Who influences them?

• And how can I show up there, with value?

When you know where your clients are and you meet them there with intention and generosity, marketing stops feeling like a grind. It becomes aligned, strategic - and so much easier.

Before I go, I’ve got something to help you take the next step: I’ve created a step-by-step guide to becoming a partner. If you're interested, you can grab your copy here: https://www.ceciliapoullain.com/free-guide

I’ll also link my previous LinkedIn Live on niching, so you can connect the dots between identifying your ideal client and showing up exactly where they are.

Have a wonderful week—and remember: you don’t need to do it all. Just do what matters.

Warmly,
Cecilia

Source: LinkedIn Live: https://www.linkedin.com/events/bewhereyourclientsare-lesstime-7333787771305701376/theater/

LinkedIn Live on Niching: https://www.linkedin.com/events/morefocus-morefreedom-morefees7313470015221997568/theater/